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Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

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Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#331

Post by II2II »

xyzelement wrote: post #172

I have not been following the Canada thing but generally have been learning more about trade and Trump's approach seems less chaotic and random than is talked about. US's largest trading partner is Mexico. The biggest thing we import from them is automobiles & auto-parts and the second largest is computers and electronics. We all understand the benefits of trade is meant to bring in - such as goods manufactured by co…

Canada doesn't have domestic auto companies, yet we manufacture auto parts and assemble automobiles destined for the US. From my understanding, this was negotiated as part of the trade deals. There is no good reason for them to desire cheap Canadian labour, weak Canadian unions, or weak Canadian environmental regulations. For one thing, Canada is known for none of those things. On the other hand, Canada had a lot of things the US wanted: access to the Canadian market and access to Canadian resources. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar happened when trade deals were manufactured with Mexico. While Mexico isn't on the same economic tier as the US, it isn't a third world nation that people like to paint it as.

As for companies looking for loopholes, it may be fun to blame it on Asian manufacturers. I would suggest that Americans take a good long look in the mirror. US companies were outsourcing assembly to Mexico long before Mexico came under the NAFTA umbrella. Quite often, at least with electronics, those US companies were using parts manufactured in Asia. Should Asian companies hold themselves back, should they avoid using the same practices as their American counterparts, just because it isn't fair to Americans? If anything, they have less reason to because Asian countries are responsible to their own citizens, not to Americans.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#332

Post by sanderjd »

goodluckchuck wrote: post #233
klm127 wrote: post #207

These tariffs will be struck down as unconstitutional just like the ones Trump attempted under the IEEPA were. Any company who paid in the meanwhile will be compensated while consumers will get the short end, so it will be a nice payday for northern importers. It's Congress who has the power to tax. If Trump wants tariffs he needs to propose a bill that creates them or gives him clear powers. The legal scholars in hi…

Regardless of our different readings of the SCOTUS’s recent opinion, statutes are a poor process for imposing tariffs. The legislative process is intentionally slow and difficult. It’s suited to permanent laws, not diplomacy and negotiations.

There is no reason for tariff policy to be made quickly. Indeed, it would be much more effective if it could change only very slowly, because any positive effects tariffs may have rely on businesses having certainty when making decisions with multi year horizons. Only a fool would make a decision about where to build a new factory based on the Trump era of whim based tariff policy.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#333

Post by lebuffon »

sanderjd wrote: post #281
LaurensBER wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, Canada (where I live) will feel way more pain from this than the US. I am not sure Trump will have respect for this at all, but the alternative was to put in a permanent trade deal that significant disadvantaged Canada. It's unfortunate and in some ways unfair. I hope the Canadian economy will move towards more open trade partners and will proposer. The thing that I really struggle to understand is w…

There is no grand vision. Trump has an irrational love of tariffs. He just likes them, they feel right to him. It is entirely that we have a presidential system with an executive that is capable of too much unilateral action, and we elected someone to that office who is unfit for it.

When you are forbidden to expand taxation on the people with money, because "ideology" and your country is accruing debt at historic levels, tariffs are about the only revenue source that you have that won't make the oligarchs angry.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#334

Post by estearum »

Ziomislaw wrote: post #314
heresie-dabord wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump and MAGA have destroyed the good relationships and trust that the US had built throughout the world. Canada's Prime Minister wrote [1]: "We have recognised from the beginning that America has changed, and that we will not return to our old relationship. Our government understood, before many, that America is altering all its trade relationships. Putting tariffs on its closest allies and charging for access to i…

I would not call it good relationship, US just stopped pretending, that is all. They were always a global threat. I am happy US delusions finally forced everyone to stop pretending too, because the cost of it got too large. Splendid.

Being a global threat but "pretending" so well to be a good faith actor that people treat you and engage with you as a good faith actor, is literally the same as just being a good faith actor.

The US was a good faith actor, especially relative to its power. Now it is not. It is not good for the world's most powerful military and economy to stop "pretending" to be a good faith actor, and it is not something you should find any joy in.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#335

Post by JohnFen »

thangalin wrote: post #20
sandworm101 wrote: post #10

It is a good thing canadians are so nice. Dropping US alcohol is a tiny thing compared to some of the weapons canada might deploy. Look at all the back-and-forth deals in recent years and you will see an exemption for oil and potash. Think gas prices are high now? See what happens if canada starts shipping less crude. Think food prices are high? See what happens when there is no fertilizer because canada has restrict…

The sentiment here is that nobody wants U.S. citizens to be negatively impacted by trade restrictions or tariffs. We are figuratively and, in many cases, literally friends and family. (Aside, even if our provincial governments allow southern booze back on shelves, it'll stay there.) It would be decidedly un-Canadian to leverage electricity, potash, or other commodities necessary for survival in trade negotiations --…

> nobody wants U.S. citizens to be negatively impacted by trade restrictions or tariffs.

As much as it pains me to say it as an American, little will change unless US citizens are negatively impacted. Trump is losing power and support in the US precisely because people are becoming more aware that he's hurting them.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#336

Post by bilbo0s »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #243
pluc wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they're also stifling trade with China. We still have quotas on Chinese cars so that they don't flood the market with affordable cars to preserve our (yours and ours) inferior car industry. It's basically what Canada is doing to the US with dairy, except with Chinese cars.

I'm in the EU and my masters did hand over the car market to chinese cars and this was a very stupid move. Some EU carmakers are fighting back but it's very hard when politicians managed to have energy price in the EU being about 7x higher than those carmakers in China do pay. I'm not for tariffs but China is dumping and if we don't all want to end up being vassals of China, we should at least protect some of our ind…

>and reasonable energy price

Nice Jedi Hand Wave there.

That's the issue.

China invested in producing cheap energy. Most of the rest of the world did not.

At root, economics is about turning energy into goods and services. If the root industrial input of your competitor is cheaper than the cost of that same root industrial input to you, you're gonna need some incredible efficiencies elsewhere in that production pipeline to pull even.

At this point, the EU should be all about keeping the other major powers at arm's length, (economically and militarily), while pursuing renewable electrification with all deliberate speed.

That should be everyone else' strategy going forward as well by the way. Without cheap energy in the next global economic phase, your nation or bloc is dead in the water.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#337

Post by sanderjd »

llm_nerd wrote: post #196
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #191

[flagged]

Is this some sort of weird AI slop? Like, what even is this nonsense? "~70% of Canadian exports go to the US" If you remove oil[1], Canada has a trade deficit with the US. And strangely the US has never said an iota about tariffing or restricting oil, and on the contrary keeps trying to increase it. Like Trump's big celebration was about hoping to revive a pipeline. The vast majority of Canada's economy is internal,…

I'm fairly certain it's AI, yeah. Downvote and move on.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#339

Post by brador »

watutalkinbout wrote: post #159
robmccoll wrote: post #122

Huh 30% of our lumber just got 50% more expensive. Good thing we don't have shortages of affordable housing that need new construction to solve. Brilliant stuff Donald. Truly some 4D chess moves.

You still think any of his moves are driven by 'what's good for the US'? I think it's motivated entirely by schemes to stuff his pockets with money.

He wakes up and flips a coin. He doesn’t care anyway and there’s no consequences.

Re: Canada will match US tariffs 'dollar for dollar' as trade talks break down

#340

Post by tigereyeTO »

xxs wrote: post #247
dbdr wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please be aware people reading don't know which country you are from, so using "our" is ambiguous. You could just as well have been Canadian, and it took extra deciphering to guess you're apparently from the US.

Given "Donald" reference is beyond obvious, same if you know anything about trade, geography or housing issues.

Both an American and a Canadian could reference Donald for the same reason: Donald imposed the tariffs.

Canada also participates in trade, is located in the same geographic continent, and is also suffering housing issues.

I too struggled to identify which “our” the comment referred to

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