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More German than many Germans

mertbulan.com

331–340 of 545 posts

Re: More German than many Germans

#331
post #42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get run over by a car or bicycle while trying to board a bus outside an official station, or if you trip, the bus company is liable, and the driver will be in very big trouble. Also, wehret den Anfängen! If they started doing this, it would set an example: it would make it very difficult to keep the schedule, and would invite people to just walk into traffic to busses stopping at a red light.

da könnte ja jeder kommen (then everony tries that, very loosely translated)

I love that. It's part of what's hilariously called the "Beamtendreisatz" (roughly, the three rules of public servants)

1. Das haben wir schon immer so gemacht (that's how we've always done it)

2. Das haben wir noch nie so gemacht (we have never done it like that)

3. Da könnte ja jeder kommen (then everyone would try it)

They're so German that they're very difficult to faithfully translate. Just imagine a grumpy older guy looking for every excuse not to do what you want him to.

Re: More German than many Germans

#332
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absurdity [as I see it] is that people like you think you know what is or isn't other peoples problem. You only get to say that when you live on an island.

> you think you know what is or isn't other peoples problem. I don’t think that at all. All I said was that if I absolve the driver of whatever responsibility he believes he has for me, then if something happens as I step out, it is indeed should not be his problem, legally speaking. He might not like it, of course - which is not my problem, to be honest. edit: this is all linguistics, however. The initial issue was…

It's also related to having a social healthcare system. People who keep stepping into traffic and get run over really rack up the hospital bills which, ultimately, are paid by everyone. So the country decided that they need to adopt some measures to keep stupid people from getting hurt.

Re: More German than many Germans

#333
post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

Yes, if one compares in the downward direction of living standards, there are many countries doing worse, no doubt. It is also a fact however, that we massively neglect our education system, and have good grades inflation in many places. Record numbers of 1.0 (best grade) students, while secondary schools ("Gymnasiums") and universities complain about the quality of students, despite their grades, with the gap wideni…

> And the education system is not the only thing that is down in the drain and worsening.

Which is simply wrong --- or at least only true if you look at only part of the education system.

But in Germany, there is also an education system to become Geselle, Meister, Techniker, Fachwirt --- things that many other countries don't have. And somehow people always ignore that.

And the Deutsche Bahn ... perhaps not the shining example. But ... look at France. They hardly have trains, e.g. there are small towns that only have 8 trains a day. To go by TGV from Bordeaux to Lyon you must pass Paris, hundreds of kilometers depart. It's like going from Kassel to Hamburg must go via Berlin. Also, the trains in UK are bad. And some countries, like Spain, or Greece, also hardly have tracks AND trains. While here, we actually tracks "everywhere" and even a bit too many trains, therefore the delay. But you can reach your destination, while in other countries there's no way. 5 weeks ago I went with ICE from Kassel to Regensburg --- for a mere 26 EUR (one way) because I booked in advance. Where else do you get that?

Employment situation bad... and yet there are some groups that constantly look to employ you. Every Aldi, Lidl has posters looking for people. The Bahn searches train drivers. Lot of transportation companies look for lorry drivers. The unemployment rate of Germany is at 3.9% -- only 7 EU countries better than us. Our 3.9% is e.g. better than the US. Did the situation get worse the last 3 years? Sure. But why? I'd point to Putin and Trump and some Mullahs (end of cheap gas, nonsensical customs, havoc in the straits of Hormuz).

Purchasing power wise Germany is at location 8 in the EU.

But hey, the typical complaining german gives to me the impression as if we're still the "Herrenrasse". We must always #1. As soon we're not #1 the end is nigh :-) Place 7 of 27 is totally bad, apparently.

However, if you select something in isolation, and then compare ONLY to the best, then you will always find that you're lacking. You had a 2 in english .. but there was this guy that had a 1 (in Germany that is better). You had a 2 in physics, but this lady had a 1. You had a 2 in sports, but again there was someone with a 1. And so on. And suddenly you think that you're the last of the students, because always there is someone better than you.

No, you must look at ALL the candidates, not just at those that are better. Compare the Bahn not just with Switzerland. Compare it with UK, France, Greece, Estonia Or ... heck, even the passenger railways system of the USA which sucks bollocks.

Re: More German than many Germans

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of good video games have decent German dubs This in my experience only holds for AAA titles. For many smaller games, the German translation/localization is so bad that if one's English level is not insanely bad, it's even more comfortable to play the English version, and use a dictionary for lots of words (i.e. invest more time using the dictionary than playing the game) than tolerating the pain of how bad th…

Idk, do you play those point and click adventure games from early 2000s? Syberia? Broken Sword? they’re decent. Deponia also good, Truberbrook. What I cannot stand are things that are medieval and then everyone refers to you as Ihr instead of du or Sie. Was that even a thing? Even the star wars games do it… which i guess it’s because jedi “knights”.

> do you play those point and click adventure games from early 2000s?

Yes (but this is off-topic).

> Deponia also good, Truberbrook.

For both of these games, the original native version is in German, so of course their German (not-)translation is good. :-)

> What I cannot stand are things that are medieval and then everyone refers to you as Ihr instead of du or Sie. Was that even a thing? Even the star wars games do it… which i guess it’s because jedi “knights”.

Yes, this is called called "Pluralis Majestatis":

> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_Majestatis

The Pluralis Majestatis is a formal addressing that is more formal than (singular) "Sie" for a single person (typical for addressing aristocrats of higher a noble rank).

The "Pluralis Majestatis" is not to be confused with the Pluralis Auctoris

> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_Auctoris

and the Pluralis Modestiae

> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_Modestiae

--

Concerning your point "What I cannot stand are things that are medieval and then everyone refers to you as Ihr instead of du or Sie. Was that even a thing?" Even the star wars games do it… which i guess it’s because jedi “knights”.

As I already hinted: this is the correct for medivial setting if you have to address people of a higher a noble rank (if you don't use it, it would feel deeply wrong to native German speakers).

Concerning "Star Wars": I know little about this topic, but your point shows that for a proper German localization, you really have to think deeply about which kind of group needs which kind of addressing to which group (informal pronouns, formal pronouns, Pluralis Majestatis, ...).

For such settings which have no historical reference such as Star Wars I consider it to be very plausible that if the original setting was written in English, the authors never actually thought about such questions, so it is very likely that such questions were hushed over when a localization was done under time pressure (or English native speakers who commissioned the translation/localization underestimated the importance of such considerations).

Re: More German than many Germans

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was such an unusual thing for me coming from Germany to Italy. The Bus driver would stop at seemingly random places to pick up or drop people off. Once he stopped at the cafe to pick up his newspaper!

Was this a comparable environment (big city vs big city, or rural vs rural)? This is a thing for rural services in Ireland (one type of service does this officially; you can ask them to pick you up at your house!), but very much not one for urban services, say.

Good point, and yes, the cities are comparable in population, around 100 - 200k.

Re: More German than many Germans

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They adopted in the sense of surviving. Considering their head start and massive government support for the industry, their market share compared to Japanese and Korean cars is a joke, with the Chinese it will get even worst because this time they will be pushed out of their home market too. This comes from a die hard bmw fan. Facts over feelings.

I'm not a car fan of any kind or shape. I'm talking about things that happened. I say let's wait and see. You say you know the future. You tell me "facts over feelings". I accept your negative outlook and respect your right to hold that opinion. But, and I'm saying this in the most respectful way possible, let's have a little intellectual honesty here, please. Your statement is more speculation than mine.

Of course it is speculation. I don’t have a magic ball. But only a fool ignores trends!

Re: More German than many Germans

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German culture is very functional, rigid, and dry, and it serves people with that kind of mindset very well. However, it clashes strongly with typical Southern cultures, so it is no surprise that the parent mentioned this. People who value the "softer" aspects of life are not going to feel at home. There are certainly exceptions, and YMMV.

The question is... what about the german culture do you know? Do you know the "functional" Brother Grimm's tales? Or the "dry" humor of Dieter Hallervorden if you're a bit older? (okay, Christian Ehring from extra3 is perhaps really dry ...) Do you know the rigid songs of, say Nena or Einstürzende Neubauten? Or is the music of BAP functional to you? Are the books of Andreas Eschbach dry? Or the lyrics of Ingeborg Bac…

It's not a matter of not knowing the language. I grew up in Brazil but studied in a German school from grades 6-12. I used to watch Deutsche Welle more than I'd watch canned US sitcoms on cable.

I can understand a joke, and I can even (most of the times) understand the intention of the joke. But it doesn't mean that I find it funny.

As for "culture", I don't think we are using it in the same way. I mean in the sense of "expected norms and behaviors".

Let me give you one example: BBQ "culture". I really like to grill in the summer time and my birthday is in June. So I put these two together and made a tradition to have a BBQ party for my birthday.

Maybe you are not aware, but Brazilian BBQ is a multiple-hour event. It is not just a matter of cooking a pile of meat and getting stuffed, it is an opportunity to get the group together, socialize, and to slowly enjoy the food throughout the afternoon. Also, people can coordinate about the side-dishes all they want, but usually the host of the party "runs" the grill.

So, to get to the anecdote: one of my first birthdays here I invited a bunch of people to my place. I told them "Don't worry about the food or drinks. I got plenty for everyone."

Anyway, it was the time of the party and people started showing up. But remember what I said, this is an day-long event. By the time people started to arrive I had most of the things already set, appetizers on the table, drinks on the cooler. Everyone there (Italians, Turks, the Greeks, the Spanish, my Polish coworker) understood their "assignment": enjoy the moment and trust the host (me) that food would be coming along...

..except this one (German) friend of my (Italian) flatmate. The dude showed up one hour after the first group of people, all stressed about "being late" (he wasn't, it's a long party, there is no set time to arrive or leave), carrying a couple of "Nackensteaks" and asking whether he could "have some space on the grill to cook his food". I told him "hey, relax, there is some food over there and more meat is coming already, I can cook these steaks you brought afterwards".

He refused, he just wanted "his" steaks. No particular reason, just because he thought that was "his" share. I let him cook his steaks, he got some of the side dishes, sat down on the table by himself and had his lunch. Only then he decided to join the rest of the people in the party.

My flatmate just looked at me and said "they really don't get it...". I shrugged, and went back to the grill.

Re: More German than many Germans

#338
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, a German, went to Switzerland for vacation once. I talked to a Swiss guy about how I like Switzerland and all that. I told him how impressed I was with how organized everything is and how well everything works. The train system and public transport in general is wonderful compared to the one we have in Germany, for example. To my surprise, he said something along the line of "yeah well, it only looks like that fro…

I moved from Sweden to Switzerland, and I don't know what that guy was talking about. Switzerland is an extremely well run country.

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Re: More German than many Germans

#339
post #63
post #32

A very nice read and pretty much my experience. I have been here for a quarter of my life now, I do not think I can live anywhere else now. People may not like me being here because of my skin color or whatever but I do not mind. I keep to myself and follow all the "rules" I can. In fact, I like most of the rules, rules are good because they ensure order, fairness and equality. Will a little bit of empathy be nicer,…

I've found that the rule-following in Germany is way more consistent than in the country I grew up at in Latin America, plus people is much more willing to help you actually follow those rules. This helps reduce the amount of (bad) chaos in your daily life tremendously.

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Re: More German than many Germans

#340
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it like this: Me: I'd like to get out here please. Driver: But it can be dangerous... Me: Noted. Good thing that is not your problem. And when I am hit by a camel while departing the bus, that is my problem also. But of course, most cultures do not support this line of reasoning - you need to be taken care of weather you like it or not. This approach is well tolerated by most people, but saddens and irritates p…

Don't talk to the bus driver while they are driving is also a rule. > Me: Noted. Good thing that is not your problem. As if... when you get injured while leaving the bus, do you really believe the bus driver would just mind their business? There is another rule that demands you help people in emergency situations

That sounds exhausting. Do things because they’re right or because you want to. Rules are fake (being a little dramatic there, but the point stands - rules create plenty of downside as well, while allowing both people to do the wrong thing with an excuse, and preventing people from doing the right thing without arbitrary consequences that are unrelated to actual outcomes).
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