Outlook is probably the worst software I encountered. I have seen relative being reduced to tears because she was not able to find her important emails and genuinely thought they were gone only to find out Outlook search is so crap it wouldn't find them despite getting literal sentences that were in those emails.
I also particularly like merging unrelated email threads into one so you end up not following what the threads are about. The focused view is the best. It hides the emails you actually care about from you.
Software like this should be illegal to distribute.
Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
331–340 of 535 posts
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, but it's not just Microsoft. I've been doing software engineering for 20+ years. I've been at a lot of different companies and at almost every single one I'm always kind of flabbergasted at how shabby the engineering is. I think maybe ONCE in my career did I work somewhere that I was proud of the engineering we were doing and it was a 18 month consulting gig at a startup with 3 engineers. This isn't hub…
The solution is competition in software. But it's a really, really dysfunctional market. Outlook persists because it can speak to Exchange. Too many bad software products persist because they're part of a lock-in with something that's difficult or expensive to swap out. Ultimately, Windows itself.
The problem is more to do with people don't want to pay for software anymore. How would a new email entrant make money when no one will pay for it?
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#333Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…
My favourite part of these success stories when Nautilus can,t replicate some functionality which Windows has since forever, eg copy-pasting tex and files across 3 RDP sessions deep. Sure, someone who uses their computer as a glorified SSH terminal with an occasional Google.Docs edition wouldn't see a problem, but I, who works everyday - do.
It's reductive to say that people who aren't "copy-pasting tex and files across 3 RDP sessions deep" are not "working everyday." While Windows fits your use case, some people do use SSH for their real work as well, even if it is simpler.
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#334Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…
Have you tried a Mac? Apple silicon is fantastic, build quality is the best on the market, you're still running a unix OS, and there's a huge community of developers + companies making things work.
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#335> Outlook is based on WebView2, and like all web apps, it’s slow Fastmail also has a web based email client, which is as fast as (if not faster than) Outlook Classic. The new Outlook is just bad. Load order is wrong, it renders everything on every window, loads unnecessary data, etc. Plain annoying.
My company recently switched from Google Suite to Office 365.
Both are web apps.
It’s NIGHT AND DAY. Google did everything instantly. Outlook doesn’t.
This morning Outlook decided to spin for 30+ seconds (at which point I gave up) showing a folder. I get a modal pop-up telling me I have to “refresh” teams multiple times a day. Search always fails the first time. Always. Then it works. Some.
I agree. It’s not web tech. It’s MS not caring.
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
The person mentioned is a special case but the reality is that most people do need _something_. What happens if one trusted person makes a mistake and submits an exe to perforce? Now absolutely everyone is hosed.
Why would everyone be hosed just because a binary got committed to version control? Either way, surely you can set up some policies or monitoring for that sort of thing. I don't know, I've been developing on Windows for decades without an antivirus and I've never had these issues. Are your people downloading and installing random software all the time? In my experience, once I'm set up with my usual tools I rarely ne…
> Why would everyone be hosed just because a binary got committed to version control?
We’re hosed if someone submits malware to source control and other people run it?
> Either way, surely you can set up some policies or monitoring for that sort of thing.
Like a tool that comes with windows that checks that nobody has done that, called windows defender? The tool I have a problem with?
> I've been developing on Windows for decades without an antivirus and I've never had these issues
This is a 100 person company with maybe 30 programmers, 30 artists and 30 designers. I don’t know which of those people are “capable” - and the people who say they are are the people I probably trust least. In a perfect world we’d tell everyone to be careful, and not click on random phishing links, and they’d listen. But they don’t, and we have to take some basic precautions. Using the OS provided, historically good, tools is a good starting point.
> Are your people downloading and installing random software all the time?
Dunno, we don’t monitor what people do. We just get an email if defender quarantines something. But we’re dealing with people working from home, and being given gaming spec machines. I would put money in the fact that people are using these for personal use.
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#337If i was in charge at MS, I'd go full return to monke and put a lot of devs into making winforms work great with 4k and high DPI. Then rebuild the most critical apps with winforms using a new layouting engine and some wpf concepts carried over. Nothing new or fancy, just old but gold.
History shows that there have been many Microsoft executives with a vision of building a new, perfect GUI toolkit. They all were released half done and quasi supported to this day.
I mean like you take the old thing and enhance it a bit but dont make a new thing from scratch because the idea and architecture has always been perfect. Most GUI toolkits from microsoft are drilled for ease of use so you dont have to have many devs to get something running (looking at dual way data binding and xaml).
Imho thats the wrong approach, make it perfect for experts and approachable for juniors, winforms was very easy to click together, WPF not so much, too much framework magic.
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#338Literally was just googling yesterday about why Windows File Explorer genuinely takes longer to boot up than microsoft edge. Insane how fast they are enshittifying.
I think that's caused by OneDrive. Which was the "shove down your throat" flavour of a couple of generations ago. F OneDrive.
yea I do think you're right. Really dislike that they've truly stuffed it down as everything getting auto-uploaded to OneDrive. Would be happy to use it to store certain docs but can't control how work sets it up ya know? stuck suffering instead lmao
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like something is wrong with your system. My work machine runs Windows 11 and it's fully up to date. Notepad starts pretty much instantly.
At my last job I was responsible for 70 windows 11 machines. At my current job it’s 20. These are i7/i9 spec with 64+GB memory and NVMe drives. No endpoint management software, just Intune for device registration. They all have _very significant _ performance issues out of the box, with very long app startups, and very confusing slowdowns. I am 99% sure it’s windows defender doing an absolute crap ton of work on ever…
Windows defender has the uncanny ability of spiking up its resource usage at just the wrong time. Add in MS teams into the mix and the system just starts screaming.
Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly
#340Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…
My favourite part of these success stories when Nautilus can,t replicate some functionality which Windows has since forever, eg copy-pasting tex and files across 3 RDP sessions deep. Sure, someone who uses their computer as a glorified SSH terminal with an occasional Google.Docs edition wouldn't see a problem, but I, who works everyday - do.
The only people who I’ve ever known to use tex are honours students & academics. Comedy gold saying that’s work.