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At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

stateofsurveillance.org

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Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#331

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

cortesoft wrote: post #125
MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my choice of the word "dismantle" has caused some confusion. "Cleanly dismount, and ship back whole" is what I meant. If nothing is destroyed, they can't charge your with destruction. If the item is returned, it is not stolen. There surely will be some lesser things one could be charged with here, but I doubt they would be worth the effort and expense of a lawsuit, and unlikely to sway a jury to convict. Frus…

> If the item is returned, it is not stolen. This isn't how the law works at all. You can absolutely still be charged with theft even if you return the item.

[Shrug] that's for the jury to decide.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#332

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #285
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Many things in tech have social and therefore political consequences

political discussion is worthless when only one side is allowed to participate.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#333

Post by Quarrelsome »

happytoexplain wrote: post #43
Quarrelsome wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"It's a choice to feel like a slave/victim/etc" is a phrase born from legitimate psychological advice, but now is used 90% of the time as a "devil's platitude" (sounds like, "Just give up. It's inevitable, and you'll be happier.")

> but now is used 90% of the time as a "devil's platitude" (sounds like, "Just give up. It's inevitable, and you'll be happier.")

and that's exactly the attitude I'm complaining about. You're reading it as oppression when you could also read it as opportunity.

Imagine ICE doing what they did this year without mobile tech to organise against it. Forcing the police to wear bodycams is probably one of the best things that has ever happened.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#334

Post by Quarrelsome »

donkyrf wrote: post #26
Quarrelsome wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Your statement is not only false, it's nonsensical.

Not seeing it myself, its a problem or its an opportunity. They can see you but you also get to see them. It can make you less safe or make you safe against oppression. You can record the oppression get it into the hands of journalists, etc. Mandatory police bodycams have done wonders for accountability.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#336

Post by idle_zealot »

bko wrote: post #314
idle_zealot wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black people wanting more police presence is a well known fact, as is the fact that increased police presence in their communities results in the police arresting and killing a lot of innocent people. This reflects a world where policing is broken, but it's the only discussed mechanism to reduce crime. In parallel the perception of crime rates has become totally unhinged from actual crime statistics. If you ask an av…

> If you ask an average person whether they think crime has gone up or down they're likely to say "up by a lot." Which is basically uniformly untrue. If direct experience and official stats conflict, it's usually the official stats that are wrong. Yes, I agree things like murder has gone down (especially since it's recent peak in 2020/2021) But in terms of lawlessness, there is a lot less law and order in most large…

> No, this isn't a complicated issue. People get arrested regularly but they get let out to re-offend. here's a stat:

It is a complex issue. Even now we simultaneously let KnifecrimesMcGee out after 15 arrests while also locking up non-dangerous pot smokers for years. This isn't a "we're too lax" or "we're too strict" issue, it's both in different areas. Putting in an absolute 15 strikes program is going to hand more jaywalkers a life sentence than dangerous criminals for the simple fact that people get arrested over minor offenses more often than serious ones. Heavy-handed nonsense solves no problems. You need to acknowledge when an issue is beyond simple solutions if you're interested in solving it.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#337

Post by hackable_sand »

delichon wrote: post #300
eximius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is against the law, but I would wager it is morally coherent to smash them.

It's more coherent with moralities that put a relatively low value on property rights and rule of law.

Well yes, not everyone plays make-believe all the time.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#338

Post by danvoell »

cortesoft wrote: post #112
danvoell wrote: post #78

Counter point - I live in a major-ish city in which our police force isn't as strong as the surrounding suburbs so I don't mind a few extra eyes on the streets. My kids like to explore the neighborhood and I like a little extra peace of mind.

I am interested to hear why the cameras give you peace of mind? I'd be curious to know what situation you imagine where these cameras help protect you or your family from any harm.

An event in which something happens and I have no record, such as robbery or violence within my home or neighborhood. It feels like the suburbs around us insulate themselves from crime. It gives me the feeling that if there are repetitive criminals in my neighborhood we might be able to track them down or prevent it from happening again.

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#339

Post by hackable_sand »

stickfigure wrote: post #312
new_account_100 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like it would help a lot, even if it wouldn't solve the issue. I think we should forge ahead on trying reduce poverty, and I suspect that doing so would correlate with reductions in crime.

Over generations that will probably help, sure. In the mean time...

We've got nothing but time. What's the rush?

Re: At least 25 Flock cameras have been destroyed in five states since April 2025

#340

Post by DevKoala »

donkyrf wrote: post #230
DevKoala wrote: post #76

[flagged]

Oakland California has about 200,000 cameras if we include public and private cameras, substantially more than other cities. It also has substantially more robberies than the average city. What evidence do you have that these cameras are preventing crime? Why would you mistake these cameras for a solution? It seems to me that you've tacitly acknowledged that the thing you refer to as a "solution" is ineffective at be…

Private cameras make the bulk of your stat and they do help in deter crime on personal property.

What is the crime volume if these cameras are gone?

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