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Online age verification is the hill to die on

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Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#331
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are already laws defining this. Had to draw the line somewhere, and they did.

In which legal jurisdiction and culture? Many or most website are have users from many locations. Is the header a json encoded map from country code to age rating?

The US. If they want to serve users in other countries, or if certain states make their own rules, it's business as usual whether to serve different content there or serve a different header or take the legal risk.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#333
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which legal jurisdiction and culture? Many or most website are have users from many locations. Is the header a json encoded map from country code to age rating?

The US. If they want to serve users in other countries, or if certain states make their own rules, it's business as usual whether to serve different content there or serve a different header or take the legal risk.

That seems unworkable and a practical matter

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#334
post #305
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderation is like law enforcement, it doesn't prevent crimes from happening it just punishes the people they can catch. There exist severe punishments for the kinds of behavior I'm talking about, but unsurprisingly, this does not stop kids from being harmed and it doesn't undo it. This isn't hypothetical, by the way. There are adults catfishing kids into producing CSAM [0], kidnapping and assaulting minors [1], [2],…

I am only interesting in protected the majority of children which I believe my proposal more than covers. There will always be exceptions. Today teens share porn, warez, pirated movies and music with small children in rated-G video games. I am not proposing anything for that. It is up to businesses to detect and block such things. Point being, there will be a myriad of exceptions. I am not looking to address the exce…

Look, please don't sideline/marginalize people by using the "whataboutism" term. Thats being used more and more to silence dialog from people that see problems outside the focus of a specific area. Its important that we see ALL sides of the problem.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#335

Seriously, who cares this much about the internet? I for one will be happy if my kids spend less time online than me. Similar to what a smoker would feel seeing cigarettes finally be banned, I suppose. It's also ironic that this guy is so adamant about protecting the children on xitter. It's like preaching against racism on 4chan.

> who cares this much about the internet? The Internet pretty much runs our lives now, so: I do. Lots of things require having Internet access, an email address, being able to visit a website, coordinate with others on a Facebook page for a local group, etc. No one requires me to buy a pack of cigarettes to register for classes, pay bills, submit something to the government, etc.

So you're worried that due to age checks you'll no longer be able to anonymously

> register for classes, pay bills, submit something to the government

is that right?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#336
I’m in the UK and we recently got the Online Safety Act. We failed, this legislation is very popular with voters and not getting rolled back. Those that dislike it use a VPN and aren’t interested in fighting. I’d say most of the public here is exhausted with cost of living and internet freedom just isn’t relevant to their voting habits.

I grew up around a lot of the hacker ethos, open internet, Information Wants To Be Free etc… feels like a part of my identity is being striped away by my government.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#337
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a tech company calling into a government database to verify your identity maintain your anonymity?

It does the opposite: allowing the government to track your online activity as a side-effect of site owners' validating your ID every time you visit. That's the point, and it's a big part of why opposing online age verification is a hill to die on.

My mistake. My question was rhetorical but I thought this whole thread was rooted in the parallel conversation about anonymous credentials systems.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#338
post #121

There's an angle everyone misses. Mandatory age surveillance everywhere is only going to result in massive, normalized ID fraud. You thought fake and stolen IDs were a problem before? You haven't seen anything yet. And half of it will be from adults trying to avoid privacy invasion.

Plenty European countries have eID without these issues.

You use eID when explicitly interacting with a govt entity or bank or otherwise similar institution because you have to and want to prove who you are. Yes, I do want to prove who I am when I file taxes, vote or want to start a business...

You don't use it when just browsing randomly on the internet. You don't use it to buy games on steam. Your computer isn't forced to store it because a law arbitrarily says so.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#339
post #41

Age verification can be achieved without destroying anonymity and privacy online using anonymous credential systems, but it has to be designed that way from the ground up, and no one pushing age verification is interested in preserving privacy.

AFAIK there are designs in the EU that respect privacy. There is a range of options being pushed around the world, and theres definitely a few of them which are more technically defensible than others.

The EU's proposed design still has a ton of issues.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#340

Im completely OK with verifying someone's age before distributing age-restricted services to them. That's what an age restricted service is, and obviously we shouldnt let porn companies distribute porn to minors (its already illegal most place). Just dont use porn, facebook, online gambling etc. if you dont want to share your identity. I can see why it's unfortunate but the idea posited that that it's somehow illegal…

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