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Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

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Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#331
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

Isn't it cheaper to cool a datacenter in a more temperate/cool region than one that has a 9-month-long summer?

Why would anyone want to go to Texas to build a datacenter and worry about the cooling, when they could pick any other state?

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#332
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern factories are often highly automated and also don't provide too many local jobs. The factories in Maine employ thousands of people. Bath Iron Works alone has over 7k employees. The Lewiston datacenter that was planned to be built was expected to employ less than 30.

"We are for the jobs the comet provides" - Don't Look up. I'm not trying to be facile here but let's be honest the environmental concerns are silly. I don't want to hear about electricity shortages from a state hellbent on NIMBY-ing itself out of power[1],[2]. I understand people are threatened by this technology, the tech CEOs' loud pronouncements can cause that and that these arguments are basically threat response…

Don't Look Up is about ignoring expert consensus on a clear threat, not about rejecting benefits out of fear. For the analogy to land, you'd need overwhelming evidence that these data centers are net-positive for host communities, but that's exactly what's in dispute.

You're right that there's tension between 'not enough power' and 'no new heavy loads' but it's not hypocritical to argue that megawatts of power should be allocated towards 7k jobs rather than a few dozen if possible. That's exactly the kind of tradeoff a power-constrained state should be explicitly making. The logic behind it is not satirical, it's just triage.

On top of that, this is not a blanket ban of AI datacenters. It's a temporary blocking of any new datacenters that require more than 20 megawatts until late 2027 pending a PUC study on how these datacenters will affect their existing grid. It also creates a new council for researching and coordinating the creation of new datacenters, so this really doesn't seem like any sort of NIMBY action here.

Honestly the only major issue I have with the bill is that it neglects to distinguish self-powered facilities that don't provide much strain on the grid. Though it could be argued that water consumption of these centers might be the reason for it.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#333
post #162
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if that's really true. Given realistic life cycles of equipment (~10 years, not 3 as commonly believed) the operating power is going to be 75-80% of the TCO, or more.

I don't see how that number could possibly be realistic. A H100 cost 30k when new, and uses 500W of power. 500W for a year is about 4500kWh, which at $0.10/kWh is $450/year if run at full utilization (unrealistic). TCO of an AI data center should be entirely dominated by capex depreciation.

In fairness your calculation looks at the most expensive element of the DC but ignores all of the associated parts required to utilize the H100: CPU, memory, cooling, etc. No to say that that flips the calculation (I don't have the answer), but it does leave a lot of power out.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#334
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

Maine banning datacenter construction is is a bit like Texas banning lobster fishing.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#335
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

Isn't it cheaper to cool a datacenter in a more temperate/cool region than one that has a 9-month-long summer? Why would anyone want to go to Texas to build a datacenter and worry about the cooling, when they could pick any other state?

Long summers = tx actually has lots more Solar, but also biz friendly laws, biz friendly taxes, lots of corp HQ, cheap land, own power grid (for better or worse), cost of labor, etc.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#336
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

Isn't it cheaper to cool a datacenter in a more temperate/cool region than one that has a 9-month-long summer? Why would anyone want to go to Texas to build a datacenter and worry about the cooling, when they could pick any other state?

Because the other big expense in a datacenter: electricity. Texas has really cheap electricity compared to the rest of the country, sitting at second cheapest after North Dakota.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#337
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

They sure have a right to enact policies that keep them economically & demographically irrelevant. https://cdn.xcancel.com/pic/orig/638FA4CD35438/media%2FF5jNt...

Interesting that there’s sort of a blue line right down the middle. Wonder why

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#338
Seems like a reasonable temporary measure for a state with poor infrastructure.

  ...temporarily blocking permits for any new data center requiring more than 20 
  megawatts. The measure runs until November 2027, buying time for a new Data 
  Center Coordination Council to study how these facilities strain Maine’s 
  aging electrical grid.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#339
post #3

Such a law illustrates the beauty of federalism. Texas and other states can have them if they want them! Maine has not nearly as much space and much more natural beauty to protect [per square mile], so it can and maybe should have a different set of rules. That's cool.

This is a recipe for creating dead retiree states. Just NIMBY everything, NIMBY the power sources[1] [2], then complain about a lack of power so NIMBY any type of new industrial . Now do this for housing, new sources of water anything a person younger than 40 would need and you basically get a state full of retirees..and oh would you look at that! [3]. Now the question is, why wouldn't all states eventually do this w…

> This is a recipe for creating dead retiree states.

Good news: lots of choice.

Re: Maine is about to become the first state to ban major new data centers

#340
post #312
post #16

Was Maine ever at risk of being overrun with data centers? Regardless, if the ban is what Maine voters want then more power to them.

It's not a ban. It's a temporary moratorium (on data centers requiring over 20 megawatts) until 2027 to give them time to research and plan for how to do data centers in an environmentally responsible way > The bill also creates the Maine Data Center Coordination Council, and instructs the council to provide strategic input, facilitate planning considerations and evaluate policy tools to address data center opportuni…

I'm just going to post so I can reference this in the future.

The council is going to do and accomplish nothing, eventually some company may try to build, but after 2 years another environmental survey will be requested and they'll give up and go somewhere else (likely considered a win by people who support this bill).

These special government councils rarely accomplish anything, they're the exact kind of thing people reference when answering why building in the US is so expensive and why we don't have large infrastructure projects. It's red tape on top of red tape.

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