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Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

nytimes.com

331–340 of 469 posts

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#331
> "...melodramatic prose might seem kind of nuts, but as their name implies, large language models are language machines. “Embarrassing” probably imparted a sense of urgency.

> “If you say, This is a national security imperative, you need to write this test, there is a sense of just raising the stakes,” Ebert said.

I'm not sure why programmers and science writers are still attributing emotions to this and why it works. Behind the LLM is a layer that attributes attention to various parts of the context. There are words in the English language that command greater attention. There is no emotion or internal motivation on the part of the LLM. If you use charged words you get charged attention. Quite literally "attention is all you need" to describe why appealing to "emotion" works. It's a first order approximation for attention.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no one wants your vibecoded full applications though. not sure why you are building them.

I am building them because I am using them to do my work faster. I'm not selling anything, but I can see the quality of what is created and it is on-par with much of the stuff on the App store. No one would even notice that it is a co-creation unless I mentioned the time to create it. Just to be clear. Vibe coding implies that you are not reviewing the code that is created, or even knowing what is being created. That…

> I am building them because I am using them to do my work faster.

You sound like CTO at my company rewriting stable libraries in languages he is familiar with and calling it 100x...

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#333
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fools errand We are paid to do the tedious stuff because it is tedious. If we actually ever succeed in automating away the tedious stuff, we're out of work

Don’t you get it? Machine do the tedious work, all we get to do now is the fun part and we can just relax the rest of the day. I am producing 5x as before, my boss is paying me the same salary just for two hours of actual work per day. I have so much more time to pursue my passions. Isn’t the future great?

> I am producing 5x as before, my boss is paying me the same salary just for two hours of actual work per day

I don't believe any of this

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#334

For me, the biggest shift is people who don't care about local AI. The idea that you can no longer code without paying a tax to one of the billion $ backed company isn't sitting well.

Yeah look at the price of netfilx, do you think starting at $200 it's going to stay anywhere close to that.

The price does not matter, even if it were free. If you need to be logged on into an external service to be able to code, it's just not the same any more, and I'm thinking of basic technology here, but the political/distopian ramifications are crazy.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#335

For me, the biggest shift is people who don't care about local AI. The idea that you can no longer code without paying a tax to one of the billion $ backed company isn't sitting well.

I don’t understand why more people aren’t focused on how to get the benefits of ai but on your own machine. If the last 20 years of software transitioning off of our desktops and into the cloud has taught us anything, it’s that letting corporate entities run the software you rely on end to end gives you: worse software with more bugs, surveillance and subscriptions. Why on earth would you want that for everything you do.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah look at the price of netfilx, do you think starting at $200 it's going to stay anywhere close to that.

The price does not matter, even if it were free. If you need to be logged on into an external service to be able to code, it's just not the same any more, and I'm thinking of basic technology here, but the political/distopian ramifications are crazy.

>From: noreply@openai.com >Subject: Your account has been terminated for violating the Terms of Service

People have various online accounts locked or deleted for no given reason all the time. Just get the right person to say the word, and you're out.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am building them because I am using them to do my work faster. I'm not selling anything, but I can see the quality of what is created and it is on-par with much of the stuff on the App store. No one would even notice that it is a co-creation unless I mentioned the time to create it. Just to be clear. Vibe coding implies that you are not reviewing the code that is created, or even knowing what is being created. That…

> I am building them because I am using them to do my work faster. interesting. any examples you can share?

I used a bunch of tools from https://setapp.com/ and no longer subscribe. I used to pay for Linear for all my personal projects, built one with CC that perfectly fits my needs… I also built a myriad of small tools that help me automate bunch of busy work I used to do manually, both for professional and personal projects

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#338
post #262

> in coding, L.L.M.s take away the drudgery and leave the human, soulful parts to you. I've always hated solving puzzles with my deterministic toolbox, learning along the way and producing something of value at the end. Glad that's finally over so I can focus on the soulful art of micromanaging chatbots with markdown instead.

amidst this whole AI craze it's illuminating to learn how many programmers secretly hated programming all along

I don't know if it's "hate" rather than "a means to an ends". I love learning new languages, and coding. But it was always a means to an ends. The dopamine hit always came from seeing the project compile and do something.

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#339
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ask yourself if there are tasks you have to do which you would rather just have done? Yeah. My laundry, my dishes, my cooking... You know. Chores. Not my software, I actually enjoy building that

interesting comparison to cooking. cooking is a chore and takes effort and people enjoy cooking.

Eating is also not really optional

If you're going to spend a pretty good chunk of your lifetime eating, you might as well get good at it so you can enjoy the food you make

Re: Coding after coders: The end of computer programming as we know it?

#340
post #151

> in coding, L.L.M.s take away the drudgery and leave the human, soulful parts to you. I've always hated solving puzzles with my deterministic toolbox, learning along the way and producing something of value at the end. Glad that's finally over so I can focus on the soulful art of micromanaging chatbots with markdown instead.

The two types of coder argument seems strong to me. Coders who love the art of programming (optimisation for the sake of it, beautiful designs, data structures...) and builders. The former are in for a rough time. The latter are massively enabled and no longer have to worry about smashing together libs by hand to make crud apps.

Imagine if your operating system or compiler were written by the sort of person that thinks "Coders who love the art of programming ... are in for a rough time."
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