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The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

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Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#331
post #306
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think this will happen Block just laid off 40% of their company citing AI.

Tech companies have been laying off employees for a while now. I think it's mostly due to pandemic overhiring and higher interest rates but I suppose we'll see.

I agree that AI was not the _actual_ reason, however, it did allow them to do massive layoffs without admitting they are doing poorly and not taking a massive hit to their stock price.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's true, but something even more subtle is going on. The quality of the LLM output depends on how it was prompted in a way more profound than I think most people realize. If you prompt the LLM using jargon and lingo that indicate you are already well experienced with the domain space, the LLM will rollplay an experienced developer. If you prompt it like you're a clueless PHB who's never coded, the LLM wil…

This is magical thinking. LLMs are physically incapable of generating something “well thought out”, because they are physically incapable of thinking.

Tell Donald Knuth that: https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/papers/claude-cyc...

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#333

> Video games stand out as one market where consumers have pushed back effectively No, it's simply untrue. Players only object against AI art assets. And only when they're painfully obvious. No one cares about how the code is written. If you actually read the words used in Steam AI survey you'll know Steam has completely caved in for AI-gen code as well. It's specifically worded like this: > content such as artwork,…

You're cherry picking. The open world games aren't as compelling anymore since the novelty is wearing off. I can cherry pick, too. For example, Starfield in all its grandeur is pretty boring. And the users may not care about code directly, but they definitely do indirectly. The less optimized and more off-the-shelf solutions have seen a stark decrease in performance but allowing game development to be more approachab…

Yeah I mean, I think procgen is cool tech, but there's a reason we don't talk about Daggerfall the same way we talk about Morrowind

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Procedural generation underlies the most popular game of all time (Minecraft) and is foundational for numerous other games of a similar type - Dwarf Fortress, et al. And it's used to power effect where you might not expect it (Stardew Valley mines). What procedural generation does NOT work at is generating "story elements" though perhaps even that can fall, Dwarf Fortress already does decently enough given that the p…

And here I thought the most popular game of all time was Soccer or Super Mario Bros 3

I think they meant videogame, ruling out soccer.

It looks like the Super Mario Bros series has a good showing, but it is the first one. I bet 3 falls into an unlucky valley where the game-playing population was not quite as large as it is now, but it isn’t early enough to get the extreme nostalgia of the first one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_gam...

Of course this assumes sales=popularity, but the latter is too hard to measure.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things where people who don't know how to use tools think they're bad, like people who would write whole sentences into search engines in the 90s. LLMs are bad at counting the number of rows in a spreadsheet. LLMs are great at "write a Python script that counts the number of rows in this spreadsheet".

Do you think asking any LLM in the next 100 years to "write a Python script that generates an OS" will work?

Considering how simple "an OS" can be, yes, and in the 2020s.

If you're expecting OSX, AI will certainly be able to make that and better "in the next 100 years". Though perhaps not oneshotting off something as vague as "make an OS" without followup questions about target architecture and desired features.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#336

> Video games stand out as one market where consumers have pushed back effectively No, it's simply untrue. Players only object against AI art assets. And only when they're painfully obvious. No one cares about how the code is written. If you actually read the words used in Steam AI survey you'll know Steam has completely caved in for AI-gen code as well. It's specifically worded like this: > content such as artwork,…

> Spore is well acclaimed.

Its creature creator was, but as a game it was always mediocre to bad. They had to drop something like 90% of the features and extremely dumb down the stages to get it released.

It was also what introduced a lot of us to SecuROM DRM - it bricked my laptop in the middle of a semester.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Players only object against AI art assets. And only when they're painfully obvious. Restaurant-goers only object against you spitting in their food if it's painfully obvious (i.e. they see you do it, or they taste it) Players are buying your art. They are valuing it based on how you say you made it. They came down hard on asset-flipping shovelware before the rise of AI (where someone else made the art and you just…

> They came down hard on asset-flipping shovelware before the rise of AI That’s not what I remember, I remember PUBG being a viral hit that extensively used asset flipping.

The more nuanced take is that, if somehow your game is actually good or interesting despite being full of other people's assets, players will see the value that you created (e.g. making a fun game). This is missing in most "asset-flip" games.

Another example comes from Getting Over It with Bennett Foddy, which despite the fact it uses a lot of pre-bought art assets, the entire game has the indisputable hallmark of Bennett Foddy -- it has a ridiculously tricky control mechanism, and the whole game world you play in, should you make any mistakes, has a strong likelyhood of dropping you right back at the start, and it's all your own fault for not being able to recover from your mistakes under pressure. You can see this theme in his other games like QWOP and Baby Steps

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#338

I am bit tired of such discussions. I don't care if LLMs are good at coding or bad at it (in my experience the answer is "it depends"). I don't care how good are they at anything else. What matters in the end is that this tech is not to empower a common person (although it could). It is not here to make our lives better, more worthwhile, more satisfying (it could do these as well). It is there to reduce our agency, t…

This argument can be used, and has been used, about every innovation in automation since the dawn of the industrial revolution.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#339
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the point of the author. He literally said no court should have rendered a judgement, that's the exact opposite of guilty until proven innocent. Guilty means a court has made a judgement. He is proposing to not make a judgement at all. If the AI company CLAIMS something they have to prove it. Like they do in science or something. Any claim is treated as such, a claim. The trick is to not even claim an…

sure, no "court" should render it, but then >AI output should be treated like a forgery Who's passing this judgement this? Author? Civil society?

A forgery isn't a subjective assessment. A forgery is intentionally made inaccurate claim of the origin of something. If the by-line is claiming it was made by someone who didn't make it, it's a forgery no matter how good of a copy it is judged to be.

Re: The L in "LLM" Stands for Lying

#340
post #286

I am bit tired of such discussions. I don't care if LLMs are good at coding or bad at it (in my experience the answer is "it depends"). I don't care how good are they at anything else. What matters in the end is that this tech is not to empower a common person (although it could). It is not here to make our lives better, more worthwhile, more satisfying (it could do these as well). It is there to reduce our agency, t…

> What matters in the end is that this tech is not to empower a common person (although it could). How do you figure? 20 dollars/month is insanely cheap for what OpenAI/Anthropic/Google offer. That absolutely qualifies as "empowering a common person". It lowers barriers! A lot of the anti-AI sentiment on HN concerns people losing their jobs. I don't think this will happen: programmers who know what they're doing are…

It's also, for example, the studies finding that when companies adopt AI employees' jobs get worse. More multitasking, more overtime, more burnout, more skills you're expected to learn (on your own time if necessary), more interpersonal conflict among colleagues. And this is not being offset by anything tangible like an increase in pay.

$20/month in return for measurable reductions in quality of life is not an amazing deal. It's "Heads I win, tails you lose."

Or maybe, if you're thinking of it as an enabler for a side hustle or some other project with a low probability of a high payoff, it can slightly more optimistically be regarded as a moderately expensive lottery ticket.

That's not pessimism; it's just a realistic understanding of how the tech industry actually works, informed by decades' worth of experience.

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