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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#331

Post by dheera »

well_ackshually wrote: post #53
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet projec…

> you're stuck on Android 17, which is centuries of work ahead of literally anything else in the open source community

Honestly if this happens, look to China to maintain Android going forward and add new parallel implementations of Android 18+.

Right now almost all of China runs on various forks of AOSP; every phone manufacturer in China has their own AOSP fork (Xiaomi: MIUI/HyperOS, Huawei, HarmonyOS, TCL: TCLUI, etc.). Apps in China are distributed both as .apk files as well as through a bunch of different domestic app stores. They are compatible with all of these Android forks. These apps are also designed to be compatible with Google Android for Chinese folks overseas.

TBH China is much, much closer to "decentralized" development of Android than the Google-centric US ecosystem.

Granted most of those AOSP forks in China also often have spyware of sorts, but at least there are multiple active forks and a healthy app ecosystem working on all the forks.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#332

Post by eikenberry »

well_ackshually wrote: post #260
dbdr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux's default security mechanisms are simply too weak for something as potentially hostile as a mobile device. Honest question: why are mobile devices more hostile than laptops/desktops?

It is _the_ 2FA device. from SMS, to authenticators, to password managers, etc. It also has access to all of your personal information, your pictures, your contacts, your email. It actively receives notifications and messages from the outside world, from potentially any sender. It's connected through WiFi, GPS, 5G, bluetooth, UWB, every possible connection system imaginable. It can listen to your phone calls, read yo…

You just described a computer. There is nothing in your list that is mobile specific.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#333

Post by chopin »

bornfreddy wrote: post #288
lpcvoid wrote: post #2

There's absolutely no reason to use /e/ when GrapheneOS exists. https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

As someone who switched from FP4 with /e/OS to GrapheneOS - absolutely not true. My reason for switching was a bug where the phone calls didn't display the caller number. So I switched to GOS in hope it would be better... and it is, but not in all areas. For example their insistence on not supporting MicroG leads to poor UX, because let's face it, you can't trust Google services, even sandboxed, to not syphon tons of…

That's strange, I have exactly the same combo and I can see the caller numbers just fine...

Doesn't seem a universal bug.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#334

Post by pessimizer »

izacus wrote: post #25
miroljub wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But GrapheneOS doesn't exist. It works only on a few devices created by Google, so their claim of being degoogled is a bit funny.

/e/OS is Android, meaning it's still critically dependent on goodwill of Google to continue releasing their work as part of AOSP. So if you're trying to be a silly purist, then /e/OS doesn't fit either. If you're not, getting a Pixel will significantly enhance your safety since they're better supported for security patches and better designed in hardware when it comes to security.

> So if you're trying to be a silly purist

Could you not do this? There's no need to be hostile to people who purer than you are.

It's fine if you want to make a pragmatic decision to do what works now, but you depend on people who to some degree don't want to compromise. But I always suspect this type of hostility comes from guilt being directed outward; what you actually should want to do instead is support people who are refusing to compromise and building alternatives (even if those alternatives are just ways to get things done without phones.) You will need them one day.

The idea about being dependent on Google to continue to allow you to be hostile to Google on their hardware is intrinsically not sustainable.

You're basically the same as an somebody using whatever the phone company installs mocking somebody who would dare install GrapheneOS, or even an iPhone person ridiculing somebody for using Android at all. What's the use of that?

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#335

Post by burningChrome »

well_ackshually wrote: post #328
WorldMaker wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOSP has so few of the features a full phone needs today. Google has moved too much of the Phone OS into "Google Play Services". This is already the Extend phase of the classic "embrace, extend, extinguish". Given how the next most popular AOSP implementation, Amazon's Kindle Fire isn't even trying to compete in the phone space and involves an equally large company throwing nearly as much money into an "also ran" alt…

There's not actually much in Play Services. The biggest losses are fused location providers and notification services which you would consider core to the OS. Maps are a loss, but these are very clearly Google branded. Huawei provides HMS for example, a somewhat close feature wise set of APIs for their phones that are still on Android. They can even shim play services API, the same way microg does. If anything, what…

I think it always comes down to the apps.

Windows phone died because of its lack of apps. Same thing with several other mobile OS's. Ubuntu has a really great OS and UI, but no apps for just basic things renders it useless to even the most basic of users like myself. I don't have games, no banking apps, a few email and Microsoft apps and yet I still couldn't find a way to make it work.

One of the other technical limitations is network. Ubuntu has yet to solve the VoLTE (Voice over LTE) riddle. This is a major sticking point for US consumers.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#336

Post by Jur »

fransje26 wrote: post #50

The irony of advertising a privacy-enabled de-googled system, and then telling me that my Firefox browser is not support, and that I should use Edge, Opera or Chrome instead.... Browsing: https://e.foundation/installer/ Reply: https://imgur.com/a/al1Q9DM

Same here, they advertise with the duckduckgo browser app on the above page, but it's not supported checking compatibility.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#337

Post by Forgeties79 »

bornfreddy wrote: post #274
Forgeties79 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone has the time and resources to battle their utilities and bank(s). I know it’s important and sustained effort is necessary even if it’s hard, but we are talking about massive populations here and most people simply can’t or won’t fight that battle on their own. Organizing a large pushback is also a huge effort. And at the end of the day, there is an easy solution for folks: buy a “proper” smart phone that…

Fighting for your rights is usually not the easy path, yes. It's been like that since forever.

Yes that is correct. So what do you suggest people do? What is a realistic way to move the needle? Because I can tell you now that (as I detailed in another comment) asking someone to change their banks, utilities, etc. to accommodate their smartphone choice is not a serious suggestion, nor is asking everyone to wage war with all the services they engage with. They’re simply not going to do it no matter how many passionate speeches or flippant comments you throw out there. They’re going to buy the thing that solves the immediate problem of not having access to critical services in their lives. If their amazing open source phone can’t pay their bills, it’s going in the bin.

To be clear I want the same thing you do. But just going “do it it’s important” is not going to make it happen.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#338

Post by uoaei »

goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

The day Google pulls the plug on source code releases is the day the open source community forks the last release...

Not sure what this fatalism is about but it's a hysterical take.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#339

Post by borosuxks »

p0w3n3d wrote: post #325
theK wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My account has more comments than that and I share OC's opinion and experience. I've been daily driving /e/ since its FP3 era and lately the experience has been really well polished. Even things that had been "tricky" in the past, like Android auto integration, now work seamlessly.

So FP3 is shipped with the /e/ or you need to install it manually?

It didn't come installed and the FP3 isn't sold anymore so you'll have to install it. It was dead easy though, not anywhere near the complexity of installing Lineage back in the days (though that's gotten easier too).

/e/ on FP3 has been my daily driver for 1.5 years and my daughters run it on their FP4s with no problems at all.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#340

Post by mixmastamyk »

dbdr wrote: post #247
well_ackshually wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally, not enough. Linux's default security mechanisms are simply too weak for something as potentially hostile as a mobile device. Firejail is a good start, but proper user isolation as Android does is the right solution (each app is a different user, and accessing their data/user data is only done through Providers, or IPC), and anything else is naively trusting and not enough, no matter how many layers of…

> Linux's default security mechanisms are simply too weak for something as potentially hostile as a mobile device. Honest question: why are mobile devices more hostile than laptops/desktops?

They aren't, unless you want to run untrusted apps outside of a distribution.

Flatpak sandboxing is a thing however, and probably good enough in the meantime.

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