Live data from Hacker News

I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

coinerella.com

331–340 of 391 posts

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#331
post #10

It's also difficult to find providers for competetive large-scale non-transactional emails, i.e. marketing and newsletter mails. None comes close to AWS, closest comes are messageflow (PL), elasticemail (PL), brevo (FR). Other players like Scaleway TEM (FR) and Lettermint (NL) don't offer non-transactional.

Lettermint offers "broadcast" emails which is essentially marketing

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#332
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a super cheap "CDN" that runs on Hetzner and random hosts or their colo, it's not as proper as the other ones. for anything DMCA heavy maybe just buying dedicated servers or something instead could work?

We used to expose the dedicated servers directly (i.e. no CDN at all), and while that was fine latency-wise, the lack of DDoS protection was really the limiting factor. E.g. Hetzner will just blackhole your subnet if you get DDoSed. It feels rather unviable nowadays to run a business without some CDN/DDoS protection service in front of your website.

yeah, but dealing with DDoS is easier in terms of DMCA unlike with CDNs because it's you hosting it, not the service provider (this is how Cloudflare avoids DMCA when you cache with them iirc)

so if you can just find a good dedicated server provider that won't cut you off, maybe that's a potential solution?

just my 2 cents though

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#333
post #237

Great post, I did a similar switch mid last year. Hetzner was something I already used, so I just doubled down. I have a single OVH instance where I ma playing with Openclaw, but that was because I was having issues with Hetzner that day on their new instance page (was fixed the next day) I use Bunny for my CDN, I just wish they have the capabilityt to route IPv4 and IPv6 traffic to IPv6 only origins. If your origin…

Like the author, we self-host our git repos at work with Gitea, and it's working very well and brings a rather large set of features you'd expect from a GH alternative. A great thing is that it's almost fully compatible with Github actions, so migrating an existing CI/CD should not be too painful. If you plan to move, make sure to read this first: https://docs.gitea.com/usage/actions/comparison#missing-feat... For su…

I'm using gitolite + cgit for local repositories. I tried Gitea for a while but didn't like the forced user/repo flat structure inherited from being a GitHub clone, and didn't need the additional features that Gitea/Forgejo provide.

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#334
post #6
post #2

I’ve found Scaleway really good, I’m surprised it doesn’t come up more often here. If it matters, I didn’t go to them because they were specifically an EU org either - when Packet became Equinix Metal and then that got shut down, SCW were the most equivalent in terms of cost / hardware specifications and I often used them in parallel when Packet was still around so as to not have all my eggs in one basket.

I really like Scaleway too ! I went with them because Linode got bought and I thought, since I was moving my things anyway, let's go to a French provider. And I got a bad experience with OVH, so Scaleway it was. But really, I wonder why it's not used more ? Price are maybe a bit high for some things ?

They used to have competitive prices for a while, with their dedibox line.

I think they are not as well known. It’s a bit of a side project of the parent company, Iliad. They could benefit from heavy investments and some more aggressive marketing, but perhaps it’s not worth the risk and a slow but steady growth is what they prefer.

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they're thinking about the 'offline' style where one would shuffle a database file and probably resolve conflicts. There's an app/extensions nowadays, man! I don't even bother with a VPN, just occasionally push a 'sync' button on the roaming devices [when they return to LAN] . DB transactions [new credentials] averages ~0 per month... but there's plenty of capacity. Works extremely well.

The truth is that even with KeePassXC, I just really do not notice stale passwords across devices. It's just really not a huge deal for me personally. Maybe it is for normal people. I sync my databases maybe once a year if I'm lucky.

Right, that's what I was trying to emphasize. Rare syncs are totally fine here, too. I try to keep a routine but tend to slip. If not 'with my usual device' there's a tiny number of accounts I even need. They rarely change so the 'cache' is usually suitable. If not, the restriction is always short-lived.

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#336
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don't? It's just a ton easier for most users: it's (almost) like already having an account. Just click a couple times and you're in, no typing at all, no email confirmation or anything like that. I also avoid it because I'm concerned about being over-reliant on google (what if they close my account?) and I know how to use a password manager, but I easily understand how 90-99% of the population doesn't care…

That users choose to link their account to Google when they can does not surprise me. What surprises me is that if they cannot do it, they will just leave. The post says it is a "conversion killer".

The higher the friction, the lower the probability of conversion. E.g. Amazon famously found every 100ms of latency costs them 1% in sales.

At its most simplified, this can be thought of as a simple function of time — the more time something requires, the higher chance something else happens during that time, invalidating the original task.

The best sign-in flow is none at all — that's what e.g. Discord does. They let you use the app immediately, with an automatically created provisional account. Amazing user experience.

This applies universally — convenience is everything.

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#337
post #26

Good, honest write up! As users we need to make more efforts to move out of the American ecosystems. Cloudflare is just so convenient to take only one example. OT, about the finished product (hank.parts): the French translation and tone is a little rude. For one, it uses "tu" instead of "vous", which does have become customary on Social networks but is still a little bit agressive on a regular website. And "bagnole"…

> As users we need to make more efforts to move out of the American ecosystems.

While I support the spirit, it's important to acknowledge the reality of the current situation with the US (and the rest of the world). It has little to do with SaaS services and everything to do with energy and defense.

Europe imports more than half it's energy. The United States and Russia are both net exporters (Russia significantly so), China would be close to self-sufficient if not for their limited access to oil.

And while Trump may be ridiculous, he's not entirely wrong about Europe relying on the US for defense. Current estimates are that Europe needs to spent around one trillion dollars on defense to replace American support [0], and even then faces large challenges in getting their defense up to standards fast enough. Meanwhile the Ukraine war has allowed Russia to completely rework their economy into a military one.

While the popular narrative is that Trump is the sole cause of this souring relationship the reality is that geopolitics have been shifting a lot in recent decades and Europe is simply not the global position they were 50 years ago.

Europe can rely entirely on European SaaS companies and will still face massive energy and defense dependency problems.

0. https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/europes-1-trillion-race-to-...

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#338
post #81

Enjoyable article, thanks. I'd like to see a section on "layer 8" (or 9? whatever we are calling it). The regulatory layer. There seem to be so many uncertainties in Europe (and to a slightly lesser extent, the UK) now. I think if starting another company I'd have to give it some serious consideration.

I am trying to be on top of the legal stuff. I did start EU first with GDPR compliance and expanding to the UK was kind of low effort. Comparatively little changes are required. I might expand on that in a future article.. all that legal stuff was quite a bit of effort but I got lucky with my lawyer choice and felt very supported from them at reasonable cost.

There is also Data Act, AI Act. Not difficult to comply with but lawyer probably needs to look the papers over

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#339
post #148

I just signed up up Hetzner Their menu has: - Console - konsoleH - Robot - DNS When I click into Console I get an additional option called "Website" I have no idea what Robot and konsoleH are. Is it a prerequisite if you make a cloud platform to make your offering as confusing as possible?

Hetzner is juggling quite a bit of legacy systems (konesoleH, Robot) around at the same time.. bare metal (root) is still on Robot, a system from the early 2000s I believe.. konsoleH is for classic website hosting and console is what oyu need for cloud. They are progressively moving over stuff to console now, DNS and Storage Boxes have recently moved.

I like how when you login to Robot it says "checking if you are not a robot"

Re: I tried building my startup entirely on European infrastructure

#340
post #239

What do American colleagues think when they read about this trend among Europeans to abandon their platforms?

"Fucking great, Amazon and Google need competition."

I just hope this is economically damaging enough that they will quit doing campaign finance for a party consisting entirely of despotic grifters.

Post reply on HN