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America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

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Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#331

Post by mathgladiator »

glimshe wrote: post #115
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost impossible for an upper middle class couple to retire in the US before their 65 unless they have some type of government provided or private company provided health insurance like teachers, police officers, military etc. It’s about $25K a year for a decent plan which is doable. But you have to hope that Republicans - and yes this is a political issue - don’t successfully kill the ACA and make it impossibl…

The FIRE community and my own personal situation prove you very, very wrong. It's absolutely possible for a upper middle class family to retire in their 50s, even in their 40s, if they live frugally.

I retired on my 40th birthday, and it is AWESOME.

The thing is... no one has anything that I want to buy. I don't mean this in an elitist way, but more of a monk way. Like, I don't understand status and keeping up with people.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#332

Post by mathgladiator »

heathrow83829 wrote: post #265
bjourne wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics! Can a person below the median income afford to retire early? The answer is a resounding no. Can a person the top 10th percentile (upper middle class) afford to retire early? Yes.

there are still tribes in the amazon that have very little money, like the hazda. they may not call it retirement but they don't need to go to the office everyday. Serious question, what makes us so addicted and dependent to money that we can't imagine any way of life without a lot of it?

People play dumb status games.

Here is the crazy thing, I went carnivore after I retired because one thread that worried me about shitty insurance is the risk. Now, I'm pretty sure if I only eat meat and work-out, then I might not even need insurance. Like, my labs are phenomenal.

By taking away the fear and the addiction, I've got a level of calm and control of my life that makes me realize the "modern world" is deeply sick.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#333

Post by mathgladiator »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #143
bjourne wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics! Can a person below the median income afford to retire early? The answer is a resounding no. Can a person the top 10th percentile (upper middle class) afford to retire early? Yes.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ So the top 10% is a household income of $250K and most of those couples didn’t reach that until their 40s. They aren’t making $225K as an L5 at 25 years old like a former intern/new grad I mentored when I was at BigTech Most software developers won’t even see above $160K inflation adjusted during their career. Most work in second tier cities in the “enterprise…

This guy did it: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ on like $65K IIRC

The problem is, at core, fear. Fear of taking responsibility for your life.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#334

Post by NoLinkToMe »

everforward wrote: post #57
ecshafer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPF sounds pretty clever. It covers a major individual cost and need (retirement, medical, housing) instead of just throwing it into a tax. It makes the government money. This sounds like a win win kind of policy.

To me it sounds like a tax structured in a strange way so it doesn't obviously read as a tax. It's essentially a forced loan to the government at subpar rates. The "tax" is the delta between what the government pays out for the bonds vs what a bond of equivalent risk in the free market would have paid. The magnitude of the investment also probably makes it impractical for anyone but the very wealthy to retire before…

That's partially true. 37% contribution of pay, earmarked for personal welfare expenses (housing/healthcare/retirement), basically covers 60% of a typical state budget.

But these funds aren't pooled like taxes. Typically the top 25% pay something like 80% of the income taxes. And the recipient of that tax revenue is typically the bottom 50% who get means-tested welfare benefits. In the Singaporean model it seems that the CPF funds of 37% are not pooled but allocated to personal accounts.

In other words it's a redistribution in-time (from early to late) and in-type (general income to housing/healthcare/retirement expenses), but to the same person.

Whereas a tax is typically a redistribution in the same time period, but to different persons, and can be earmarked to whatever.

I'd certainly prefer a 37% tax earmarked to me only (with modest ROI) + 10% income taxes + 0% cap gains, than the 40% tax I pay (west-europe) on my income which is wholly redistributed to others + 36% cap gains if I invest the remainder.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#335

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

mathgladiator wrote: post #333
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ So the top 10% is a household income of $250K and most of those couples didn’t reach that until their 40s. They aren’t making $225K as an L5 at 25 years old like a former intern/new grad I mentored when I was at BigTech Most software developers won’t even see above $160K inflation adjusted during their career. Most work in second tier cities in the “enterprise…

This guy did it: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ on like $65K IIRC The problem is, at core, fear. Fear of taking responsibility for your life.

So exactly how do you “take care” of your insurance if the ACA goes kaput? “Thoughts and Prayers” until you are 65?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#336

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

heathrow83829 wrote: post #265
bjourne wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics! Can a person below the median income afford to retire early? The answer is a resounding no. Can a person the top 10th percentile (upper middle class) afford to retire early? Yes.

there are still tribes in the amazon that have very little money, like the hazda. they may not call it retirement but they don't need to go to the office everyday. Serious question, what makes us so addicted and dependent to money that we can't imagine any way of life without a lot of it?

And what’s their life expectancy?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#337

Post by mathgladiator »

scottyah wrote: post #214
mothballed wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cost $30k for a loved one just to go to the hospital when their heart "felt weird" but absolutely nothing turned out to be wrong and all they did was run a couple quick scans and tests. I do agree with the overall idea of what you're saying that usually the premiums are way more than what you could get care for if you just saved the money, but the numbers on the website seem very wrong. I realize it's a total anec…

That's the pricing when you have insurance. It is cheaper if you don't.

This is one of the most insane things that I have realized... I have terrible insurance (in case), but I generally don't present it as it is much cheaper and faster to pay cash...

I think we can all agree that the current system is just... ridiculous

I used to be fearful of health concerns, but now I'm a carnivore and just feel great.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#338

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

mathgladiator wrote: post #332
heathrow83829 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are still tribes in the amazon that have very little money, like the hazda. they may not call it retirement but they don't need to go to the office everyday. Serious question, what makes us so addicted and dependent to money that we can't imagine any way of life without a lot of it?

People play dumb status games. Here is the crazy thing, I went carnivore after I retired because one thread that worried me about shitty insurance is the risk. Now, I'm pretty sure if I only eat meat and work-out, then I might not even need insurance. Like, my labs are phenomenal. By taking away the fear and the addiction, I've got a level of calm and control of my life that makes me realize the "modern world" is dee…

So you think healthy living will prevent you from needing medical care until you are 65?

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#339

Post by mathgladiator »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #335
mathgladiator wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy did it: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ on like $65K IIRC The problem is, at core, fear. Fear of taking responsibility for your life.

So exactly how do you “take care” of your insurance if the ACA goes kaput? “Thoughts and Prayers” until you are 65?

I pay cash for everything right now since ACA plans are terrible... BUT, I am also one of those nut jobs that only eats meat and it is amazing. But, most people can't even begin to imagine giving up carbs as they are junkies.

Re: America vs. Singapore: You can't save your way out of economic shocks

#340

Post by rootusrootus »

malshe wrote: post #156
mark_l_watson wrote: post #21

I had the privilege of getting a working gig in Singapore for a small AI startup: such a well run country! There is a sense of community for helping by employing people who need jobs, the police were friendly and I felt very safe there (I like to take long walks either early in the morning or late at night and I felt very secure.) Amazing what the people and government have achieved since the end of WW2. 100% respect…

I spent years in Singapore and loved it there. Never had to face road rage (which so many of us experience daily several times driving in Texas! NextDoor is full of these stories) or aggressive behavior by anyone in authority including police and immigration officers. I know many people find Singapore boring after a while but it didn't bother me much. On the flip side, the cost of living is high as a foreigner and tr…

Some of that can be solved without leaving the US. Texas is very different from, say, the PNW. Road rage and aggressive police are not in any way a regular occurrence up here.
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