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Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

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331–340 of 378 posts

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#331
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those profits have also gone down; the only year they made lower-but-still-positive profit than 2025 ($3794m) was the first year since their founding in which they made any profit (which was 2020 and $721m). Tesla's total profits over its entire existence ($37,883m [0]) is about as much as Musk has personally made by selling Tesla shares ($40bn ish [1]), but of that profit I can find $12.8bn can be attributed to gove…

Not sure what relevance Musk selling shares has to do with profit they've made. That seems completely irrelevant. That being said, yeah, profits were down a bit but a lot of that was stock compensation and other things. In practical terms they went from a cash position of 36 billion to 44 billion. They are in a phenomenal position financially as they have very little debt. By comparison GM made 2.7 billion and Stella…

> Not sure what relevance Musk selling shares has to do with profit they've made. That seems completely irrelevant.

Selling shares for more than the company made in its entire existence, demonstrates the shares are overvalued.

> By comparison GM made 2.7 billion and Stellantis lost 20 billion.

2.7/3.7 = 0.73; GM's market cap is $77.67bn, using them as your framing of the problem gets you to a Tesla market cap of $106.40bn, not their actual ~$1.5T.

And Toyota made 40-45 billion USD profit for each of the last few years, i.e. more than Tesla in its lifetime, while having a market cap that's currently $316.8bn.

Telsa, market cap $1551bn, about 5x that of a company which makes more each year than it did in total, is overpriced. Especially given how harshly both Tesla's profits and sales are declining even in otherwise growing markets.

Telsa could shift the decimal point on its market cap one place and still be overpriced.

Given what they are as a business, they are not in "a phenomenal position financially", they are in an OK position for a normal boring traditional car company and a terrible one for a trillion-dollar market cap club company.

(Numbers from companiesmarketcap.com, in case anyone complains those are out of date).

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#332
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was always a tech company focused around trying to import things from the future. Since before they ever had enough sales that sales could go down.

No, it was a car company.

No it was a financial operation living off electric vehicle credit sales

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#333
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the self driving trials in my Model Y, I find it terrifying that anyone trusts it to drive them around. It required multiple interventions in a single 10-minute drive last time I tried it.

How long ago was that? I doubt it was the v14 software. The software has become scary good in the last few weeks, in my own subjective experience.

It certainly wasn't in the past few weeks, but I've been hearing about how good it's gotten for years. Certainly not planning to pay to find out if it's true now, but I'll give it another try next free trial!

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question of whether they will solve FSD is not very relevant if everyone ends up solving it roughly at the same time.

Ha exactly. Do Tesla shareholders think the rest of the auto industry are in a coma? Besides what does FSD even mean? Austin is not Amsterdam.

> Do Tesla shareholders think the rest of the auto industry are in a coma?

I have no idea what institutional investors think, and they're probably the relevant group here.

From the way I've observed individuals discussing it, defending it, on HN… it pattern-matches to my understanding of what people these days call "main character syndrome", i.e. that the other companies are just a supporting cast to provide an interesting challenge for the only one that's not an NPC.

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#335
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be maximally reductive, FSD will never work because the sensor suite is deficient. There are other reasons but that one's enough. Same for a rocket that's ridiculously large for orbital missions but can't go beyond orbit without 15 to 25 refueling flights of the same enormous rocket. The reasons for both these failing are going to be manyfold and complex, but there are enough simple reasons that everyone should un…

Wait until they announce that Optimus is only going to have ears because "bats get by just fine"...

It would be actually fun to see where the limit is on echolocation with serious ML processing these days. Apparently people did quite well in 2022 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9655721/

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#336
post #276
post #145

I watched his interview recently to save you time, and the suffer : His Vision — Hate It, Laugh at It, or Love It: AI has solved (or is solving) coding in 2026. Robots are doing drunken panda moves, yet FSD is insanely good — running on MacBook-grade hardware. A few other companies are running large-scale self-driving pilots. Cars are already being heavily built using specialized robots today. At this point, it’s stu…

As a software developer I only really started to understand how divorced from reality Elon is when he started talking about software development. That was a sinking feeling: "Oh he doesn't actually know something I don't know. He's just keeping the music playing, so he doesn't have to sit down on the chairs that don't exist. Fuck."

Just like watching the movie Hackers and hearing how he hacked the gibson or the 7 screens setup in swordfish : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Ds9CeG-VY

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#337
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long ago was that? I doubt it was the v14 software. The software has become scary good in the last few weeks, in my own subjective experience.

It certainly wasn't in the past few weeks, but I've been hearing about how good it's gotten for years. Certainly not planning to pay to find out if it's true now, but I'll give it another try next free trial!

Make sure you are on AI4 hardware when you do. If you buy FSD on AI3 you’ll be limited to v13, which is is terrible. I have used both and they are in different leagues altogether.

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#338
post #83

Many of the comments here resemble Reddit, disappointingly. I read HN due to market insights, analysis, interesting perspectives. I am sorry for digression.

HN has been like that with anything Elon Musk related. You may have better luck with https://www.themotte.org/

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#339
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha exactly. Do Tesla shareholders think the rest of the auto industry are in a coma? Besides what does FSD even mean? Austin is not Amsterdam.

> Do Tesla shareholders think the rest of the auto industry are in a coma? I have no idea what institutional investors think, and they're probably the relevant group here. From the way I've observed individuals discussing it, defending it, on HN… it pattern-matches to my understanding of what people these days call "main character syndrome", i.e. that the other companies are just a supporting cast to provide an inter…

Or, they're stuck in a narrative that stopped making sense only gradually. Tesla solving self-driving ten years ago would have been a triumph. Solving it today, meh. They would be ahead of others by a couple of years, max.

Re: Tesla Sales Down 55% UK, 58% Spain, 59% Germany, 81% Netherlands, 93% Norway

#340

The mystery I can wrap my head around is how Tesla has avoided getting hammered despite being hit from a hundred different directions. What exactly is the market pricing in? They peaked around 2021, and even after posting multiple quarters of disappointing results, the stock is still trading above 2021 levels. For almost any other company, slightly lowering guidance or missing estimates by a few percentage points sim…

It's not a mystery, regardless of if it's dumb or not - the market is pricing in likely dominance in robotics, both cybercab and optimus.
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