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Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

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Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#331

Post by crazygringo »

ehnto wrote: post #326
maerF0x0 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's frustrating because someone is taking your safety buffer as their opportunity to travel faster. And it results in you having to travel slower and slower to maintain the gap that is constantly consumed, tragedy of the commons style, by opportunists.

Slow down a bit to create another buffer. You can even do this before they have merged, as part of the bit where you allow them to safely merge. I think if you reflect a bit you'll find you are being the same kind of person as them, if you are getting angry that you have to slow down and give up space for someone else. I understand some people can be aggressive though, that can be frustrating regardless of the outcom…

I don't think you're understanding. The point is that 20 people in a row will take advantage of your buffer to slow you down again and again and again, which makes you get to your destination later... because they're being selfish to get somewhere faster, and you're not so you get to where you're going slower.

We're not talking about where they're changing lanes to take the next exit. We're talking about where your lane happens to be moving faster, so they merge in front of you in an unsafe way to take advantage of that and just stay there. Why should you be expected to give them space, as you suggest? How is that fair, that they should get to their destination faster instead of you? Do you not see how that's going to rightfully make someone angry? When they should be waiting for a safe space to open up, rather than forcing you to slow down to create one?

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#332

Post by frogulis »

overfeed wrote: post #327
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vehicle changes lanes in front of you; I will never understand why this is so rage-inducing for people. Changing lanes is a necessary part of navigating, even during busy traffic. People on an on-ramp will need to get in front of somebody . People needing to move back to the right because their exist is coming up will need to get in front of somebody . Your lane is not a birth right. Let people merge. > you slow do…

> I will never understand why this is so rage-inducing for people Putting my armchair psychoanalyst hat on: I think American society embeds a need to be the "winner", and are you winning if end up behind another driver who's contending for "your" spot? If you've driven elsewhere for a while, you start noticing subtle driver differences, such as drivers who want to merge into your (slower) lane never braking to merge…

Driving in Melbourne -- I won't generalise to the wider Australia -- is often much the same.

Comparing to the experience of being a passenger on a bike in Saigon, the level of cooperation there is way higher, possibly due to a sort of necessity. I had this feeling while observing traffic there, that, while the latency and throughput of the roads during high traffic times are still kinda awful, at least for bikes there's a slow continuous progress that simply wouldn't exist without cooperation.

Funnily enough, my experience driving in Los Angeles was distinctly not terrible. Traffic was usually good enough to drive in, though there was very little regard for the speed limit on the freeways! I suspect I may have just been lucky to miss the worst of the traffic.

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#333

Post by frogulis »

chausen wrote: post #222
Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vehicle changes lanes in front of you; I will never understand why this is so rage-inducing for people. Changing lanes is a necessary part of navigating, even during busy traffic. People on an on-ramp will need to get in front of somebody . People needing to move back to the right because their exist is coming up will need to get in front of somebody . Your lane is not a birth right. Let people merge. > you slow do…

It brings me peace to see other people thinking this way. You should be an active participant on the highway, making decisions to maximize flow. Leaving space so people can merge, controlling speed to smooth slowdowns, anticipating traffic patterns, etc. All of the people tailgating are contributing to the congestion. https://youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE

Funny that I could guess that the link would be to that CGP Grey video :D

Adam Something has a video responding to it that's worth watching too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oafm733nI6U

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#334

Post by whitexn--g28h »

mountain_peak wrote: post #46
presidentender wrote: post #20

I got one of those dongles from my insurance company that plugged into the ODB2 port and reported my driving habits. I was a bad driver. It would frequently beep at me to let me know that I had braked too hard. I was mystified. "What should I have done differently," I'd think, as I raged at the objective machine that judged me so. The next time my brother came to visit, he called mom. "Oh, and presidentender is a goo…

Maintaining a safe following distance is incredibly challenging on busy freeways where hard braking is often 'required'. Most people have likely found themselves in this situation: vehicle changes lanes in front of you; you slow down to maintain a safe following distance, another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you. Repeat for your entire commute. Incredibly frustrating, and I've driven all over North Am…

This almost always happens when you are in the passing lane, and you are not passing. It’s much more rare in the right lane. Mythbusters, and also other traffic studies, show that returning to the right lane on the freeway whenever possible adds almost no time to a trip.

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#335

Post by patcon »

mountain_peak wrote: post #46
presidentender wrote: post #20

I got one of those dongles from my insurance company that plugged into the ODB2 port and reported my driving habits. I was a bad driver. It would frequently beep at me to let me know that I had braked too hard. I was mystified. "What should I have done differently," I'd think, as I raged at the objective machine that judged me so. The next time my brother came to visit, he called mom. "Oh, and presidentender is a goo…

Maintaining a safe following distance is incredibly challenging on busy freeways where hard braking is often 'required'. Most people have likely found themselves in this situation: vehicle changes lanes in front of you; you slow down to maintain a safe following distance, another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you. Repeat for your entire commute. Incredibly frustrating, and I've driven all over North Am…

gah YES.

I had a slow realization that I could just let people jump in. My goal is to maintain a constant speed and never have to hit the brakes, and I can usually still do that regardless of whether people jump line.

But yes, the principle of it is incredibly aggravating ("that space is for safety, not YOU, green Acura!!!") but I actually kinda like the practice of trying to be zen about it. I mostly get through a long trip at the same rate :)

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#336

Post by RupertSalt »

patcon wrote: post #335
mountain_peak wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining a safe following distance is incredibly challenging on busy freeways where hard braking is often 'required'. Most people have likely found themselves in this situation: vehicle changes lanes in front of you; you slow down to maintain a safe following distance, another car sees a gap and changes lanes in front of you. Repeat for your entire commute. Incredibly frustrating, and I've driven all over North Am…

gah YES. I had a slow realization that I could just let people jump in. My goal is to maintain a constant speed and never have to hit the brakes, and I can usually still do that regardless of whether people jump line. But yes, the principle of it is incredibly aggravating ("that space is for safety, not YOU, green Acura!!!") but I actually kinda like the practice of trying to be zen about it. I mostly get through a l…

Woah, like, "green Acura"? Where are you driving that you ever see one of those? In the USA?

I looked up an image catalog, and it seems that if an Acura's going to be green, it is likely to be an NS-X, which are fairly exotic as Acuras go.

I owned a black Integra for a while. If any had been green in those days, I would've definitely noticed! And, I definitely would've yielded the right-of-way to them, just so I could gawk and stare!

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#337

Post by Dylan16807 »

its_magic wrote: post #320
Dylan16807 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking a break is less extreme than throwing a lug nut at a moving car. Exiting and immediately reentering a freeway is also less extreme. Calling the cops if someone that is raging at you follows you when you do that is not extreme. Nobody suggested "driving all over creation".

[flagged]

Because I refuse to... throw stuff at people?

And are we in different societies now?

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#338

Post by carshodev »

crazygringo wrote: post #331
ehnto wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slow down a bit to create another buffer. You can even do this before they have merged, as part of the bit where you allow them to safely merge. I think if you reflect a bit you'll find you are being the same kind of person as them, if you are getting angry that you have to slow down and give up space for someone else. I understand some people can be aggressive though, that can be frustrating regardless of the outcom…

I don't think you're understanding. The point is that 20 people in a row will take advantage of your buffer to slow you down again and again and again, which makes you get to your destination later... because they're being selfish to get somewhere faster, and you're not so you get to where you're going slower . We're not talking about where they're changing lanes to take the next exit. We're talking about where your…

If you actually want the safest option then you should merge all the way right and keep slowing down. Noone is going to merge right if they are trying to go faster, they will only do it to get off the offramp. Meaning the gap will reopen as people exit through the offramp or merge left into faster lanes.

If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care about the following distance as much and are just trying to go as fast as possible.

I have found that often times in heavy traffic the rightmost lane can be just as fast or actually faster than a middle or left lane.

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#339

Post by Dylan16807 »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #297
Dylan16807 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'd also avoid a lot of accidents if we stopped the people that are doing lane changes for position-jockeying and no other purpose. So it's bad to be mad while driving, but there's a lot of lane changes that deserve the ire. (It's a tiny fraction of drivers that get really bad, but a less tiny fraction of lane changes.)

How about you let the police do the enforcement, and focus on your own driving?

I already do nothing about it when driving, so no changes needed there.

And the police don't enforce this.

Re: Hard-braking events as indicators of road segment crash risk

#340

Post by crazygringo »

carshodev wrote: post #338
crazygringo wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're understanding. The point is that 20 people in a row will take advantage of your buffer to slow you down again and again and again, which makes you get to your destination later... because they're being selfish to get somewhere faster, and you're not so you get to where you're going slower . We're not talking about where they're changing lanes to take the next exit. We're talking about where your…

If you actually want the safest option then you should merge all the way right and keep slowing down. Noone is going to merge right if they are trying to go faster, they will only do it to get off the offramp. Meaning the gap will reopen as people exit through the offramp or merge left into faster lanes. If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care abou…

> If you choose to go in the fastlane in traffic you should understand that it will have people who do not care about the following distance as much and are just trying to go as fast as possible.

It's not about choosing to go in the fast lane. It's about the fact that in heavy traffic, you have no idea which lane will be fastest, because they're all heavy and which one is fastest keeps switching.

> I have found that often times in heavy traffic the rightmost lane can be just as fast or actually faster than a middle or left lane.

That's exactly my point. Which is why you can be in the right lane, and tons of people from the slower lane will try to merge in front of you if you're keeping a safe distance from the car in front.

Your advice is staying in the right lane doesn't apply in these situations.

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