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ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

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Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#331

Post by throwfaraway135 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #327
throwfaraway135 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I looked illegal immigration is still illegal. I don't see people protesting en masse to take Clinton, Trump, Gates etc. accountable. Maxwell Ghislaine is alive and well, and they can't get a incrementing confession. But somehow people loose their shit when some MS-13 gang members get arrested.

Illegal immigration enforcement/code is civil, not criminal. If it was criminal, enforcement would require giving suspected offenders actual Article III judge hearings pre-every deporations, not use immigration court, etc. You know, rights. If you lot want to change it to criminal, go for it. But don't lie. People lose their shit when the Constitution is violated. When civil norms are violated in evil ways. When peop…

My argument is not about the legality, but selectivity of the outrage. Somehow if it's politically beneficial there are a ton of people outraged, and in other times like the pedophile scandal of the century, with a lot of powerful people in it, no one seams to really care.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#332

Post by mothballed »

throwfaraway135 wrote: post #331
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illegal immigration enforcement/code is civil, not criminal. If it was criminal, enforcement would require giving suspected offenders actual Article III judge hearings pre-every deporations, not use immigration court, etc. You know, rights. If you lot want to change it to criminal, go for it. But don't lie. People lose their shit when the Constitution is violated. When civil norms are violated in evil ways. When peop…

My argument is not about the legality, but selectivity of the outrage. Somehow if it's politically beneficial there are a ton of people outraged, and in other times like the pedophile scandal of the century, with a lot of powerful people in it, no one seams to really care.

You don't get MS-13 in the kind of operations that the populace have been protesting. If people are showing up with whistles and megaphones you have lost the element of surprise by such a long-shot what you are basically are getting are people who have to be there to wait for their kids to get back from school, or are sticking around because they need to go to their regular doctor appointment.

If they were getting gang members the protests would be useless because tactically they would be in and out every time before anyone could protest their operations.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#333

Post by emodendroket »

ianbutler wrote: post #25
stephantul wrote: post #20

This has bean a long time coming. This is a stark reminder that you should consider who the future stewards of whatever you are building might be. We built a vast surveillance network under the guise of servings ads and making money, and lost track of how this power could be abused by an entity not aligned with our own values.

Don't lump me in that "we". I did no such thing. I know exactly how it could be abused and have spent 12 years intentionally not working for companies that perpetuate it.

We are all very impressed, I assure you.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#334

Post by throwfaraway135 »

mothballed wrote: post #332
throwfaraway135 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is not about the legality, but selectivity of the outrage. Somehow if it's politically beneficial there are a ton of people outraged, and in other times like the pedophile scandal of the century, with a lot of powerful people in it, no one seams to really care.

You don't get MS-13 in the kind of operations that the populace have been protesting. If people are showing up with whistles and megaphones you have lost the element of surprise by such a long-shot what you are basically are getting are people who have to be there to wait for their kids to get back from school, or are sticking around because they need to go to their regular doctor appointment. If they were getting ga…

Look, this is tangential, for what is worth I don't agree with a lot of what ICE is doing.

My argument is that if you have two injustices A and B with severity of lets say 50/100 and 90/100. And injustice A is being globally protested, but injustice B is ignored, then your fight is not for justice, then you are being used as a political tool.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#335

Post by mothballed »

throwfaraway135 wrote: post #334
mothballed wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get MS-13 in the kind of operations that the populace have been protesting. If people are showing up with whistles and megaphones you have lost the element of surprise by such a long-shot what you are basically are getting are people who have to be there to wait for their kids to get back from school, or are sticking around because they need to go to their regular doctor appointment. If they were getting ga…

Look, this is tangential, for what is worth I don't agree with a lot of what ICE is doing. My argument is that if you have two injustices A and B with severity of lets say 50/100 and 90/100. And injustice A is being globally protested, but injustice B is ignored, then your fight is not for justice, then you are being used as a political tool.

Or you are seizing your moment to temporarily ally with your enemies on a 50/100 topic when the 90/100 topic doesn't have the moment you need. I generally despise the politics of most people protesting DHS/ICE but I find them to be useful idiots on this particular topic so I'm happy to form a tenuous agreement with them.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#336

Post by NoGravitas »

xp84 wrote: post #317
NoGravitas wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People wanting to abolish ICE are not, generally, calling for doing away with immigration enforcement entirely. The main thing I've seen called for is the abolition of ICE, and the restoration of the pre-DHS Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), not under the DHS, but under the DOJ. I have also seen calls to eliminate the DHS entirely, and separate out the agencies under it to their pre-DHS organization.

Pardon my skepticism, but what difference would that make to rename or reorganize DHS into a different shape? If you want immigration enforcement to be nicer (which I think I support you on in broad strokes) the correct steps are: 1. Win elections 2. Pass laws (or win the Presidency, a cheat code that has been the main way most things get done since ... 2008 or so, and is basically effective unless the "thing" is kin…

> Pardon my skepticism, but what difference would that make to rename or reorganize DHS into a different shape?

ICE, being under DHS, is part of the US security apparatus. It has a threat-orientation. INS did have an enforcement component, but it was substantially an administrative agency. Immigration enforcement agents should primarily be process servers, notifying people whose papers aren't in order either what they need to do to fix them, or when their court date is.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#337

Post by AndrewKemendo »

ianbutler wrote: post #316
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where’s the passive resistance? This user is still on twitter and actively promoting their handle there

"We also as individuals [without billions] have fairly limited capacity to directly act against these things. I donate a fair bit to the EFF for instance and I've sent outreach to representatives multiple times over the years for specific bills and when its possible I vote against surveillance." - from a parallel thread I was commenting in. I'm totally fine stopping at minimizing my culpability. I sleep just fine at…

Then don’t jump into a conversation as though you have some answer if all you’re doing is virtue signaling that you’re detached

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#338

Post by NoGravitas »

xp84 wrote: post #325
AlecSchueler wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protest you linked wasn't calling for completely open borders. That's also not policy of either of the main parties in the US, as was implied above. I understand "no one is illegal" to be a counter to the use of language like "illegals" to describe the humans involved.

I get that you can make the argument that they're merely making a semantic point. However, if that side of the debate actually agreed with us that these people shouldn't even be here at all, what difference does it make what we call them? If the side who wants them gone had their way, they'd be gone back home and they'd no longer be in any illegal status in any sense of the word. It only matters what we call them, if…

The term for immigrants without papers is "undocumented immigrant". The largest group of undocumented immigrants are people who entered the country legally, and then overstayed their visas or otherwise violated their terms (usually by working on a tourist or student visa). This is a civil offense.

Re: ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use

#339

Post by direwolf20 »

throwfaraway135 wrote: post #308
direwolf20 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh yeah, it's ok to track and arrest confirmed pedophiles, but not normal people at random

The last time I looked illegal immigration is still illegal. I don't see people protesting en masse to take Clinton, Trump, Gates etc. accountable. Maxwell Ghislaine is alive and well, and they can't get a incrementing confession. But somehow people loose their shit when some MS-13 gang members get arrested.

MS–13 is running amok in Minneapolis, but they call themselves ICE.

You say they're ICE, but I don't see any way to tell the difference.

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