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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#331

Post by tabbott »

Arathorn wrote: post #267
wolvoleo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm not entirely true. The text chat of their suite is simply element.io (matrix) and they're paying them for development. Visio does seem built from scratch but I wonder if it's a temporary thing until element is feature complete with their move away from Jitsi. You can find more about la suite on their website and the opendesk one (German project using mostly the same software). Unfortunately I don't have the link…

Tchap (the chat part of the suite) is indeed a fork of Element. Unfortunately they haven't funded upstream development for many years (otherwise both Element and Tchap would be much much better!) Visio (aka meet) began in parallel with Element's work on MatrixRTC and Element Call. Hopefully the two can converge, given they are both built on LiveKit.

It really has been a huge disappointment the extent to which governments using open source projects for mission critical work go out of their way to avoid financially supporting them.

How much better could open source alternatives to Teams be in this moment if only 1% of what Europe paid Microsoft for Teams went to investing in open alternatives?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#332

Post by j_maffe »

tyre wrote: post #219
melesian wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absence of war in Europe is more down to the EU than the US. Polls do not consistently show anything of the sort.

Yes, they do: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/06/27/international-... People globally have routinely acknowledged that: 1. The US is a hegemony that meddles in others’ affairs 2. It does so selfishly, despite the high flying rhetoric about freedom, democracy, etc. 3. This is good The preconditions for absence of war in Europe came before the EU existed and has to do with the post-WWII balance of power, which…

The poll you reference didn't ask a single country in the middle east (except Israel, of course!) or most of South American countries (half of which puppet governments were placed). I wonder why. And you really argue with a straight face that this is representative of "People globally"? I'd be more insulted by your attempt of slight if PEW wasn't doing the same.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#333

Post by j_maffe »

tyre wrote: post #35
j_maffe wrote: post #10

Honest to god, everything that Trump is doing might actually end up being that the world becomes a better place. The US hegemony really ran its course.

The US hegemony has been a tremendous boon to the world. Yes, the US has done terrible things (lots in South America, Vietnam, genocide in East Timor, failed nation building and war crimes in the Middle East, support for genocide in Palestine, etc.) This isn’t to minimize that. But the reality is that the US benefits immensely from free democracies with rules-based open markets and international order. Again, do we b…

> But the reality is that the US benefits immensely from free democracies

Would you like for me to start counting the number of times the US helped install a democracy vs the number of times it installed dictatorships?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#334

Post by TOMDM »

canpan wrote: post #300
e12e wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, now that our team has standardized on Teams rather than Zulip (so that we suffer/connect with the rest of the org whom are stuck in MS land) - and I've been given the chance to use Teams for a while - it really is worse than I initially thought. Which means it's time to look for alternative clients. I ws hoping for something like WeeSlack: https://github.com/wee-slack/wee-slack But all I found was: https://githu…

I actually had a look. Now you can get messages and stuff from MS Graph. The situation is better than a few years ago when only very useless Teams APIs were available. But the available APIs still suck. For example there is none to just get all recent notifications. I don't know if teams itself has access to more and better apis? If not that would explain a lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The number of times I've heard the notification sound, gotten a toast while in the middle of something, and then been unable to find what the hell that notification was for, because some other device I'm logged in on has helpfully marked it read.

Then begins the hunt through chats, meeting chats, group chats, channel chats and the notification pane (which doesn't show every type of notification!?) to find what it was.

Absolutely maddening.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#335

Post by dfex »

Arathorn wrote: post #267
wolvoleo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm not entirely true. The text chat of their suite is simply element.io (matrix) and they're paying them for development. Visio does seem built from scratch but I wonder if it's a temporary thing until element is feature complete with their move away from Jitsi. You can find more about la suite on their website and the opendesk one (German project using mostly the same software). Unfortunately I don't have the link…

Tchap (the chat part of the suite) is indeed a fork of Element. Unfortunately they haven't funded upstream development for many years (otherwise both Element and Tchap would be much much better!) Visio (aka meet) began in parallel with Element's work on MatrixRTC and Element Call. Hopefully the two can converge, given they are both built on LiveKit.

It boggles the mind as to why they choose a name for this application that is very clearly a Microsoft trademark.

In understand it's also the French word for Videoconferencing, but even still...

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#336

Post by bulbar »

MichaelRo wrote: post #194
aanet wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refreshing and impressive indeed. I wish other governments did this, esp those that are larger / have a reasonably large tech scene (e.g. Northern Europe, Nordic, AUS, Japan, Canada, Germany, India, etc). It's time governments realize(d) that IT sector is as strategic as the Defense sector, which is usually/always given preferential treatment (e.g. Airbus, etc) and that they don;t have to be beholden to American tech…

Well I would definitely prefer to use globally popular established solutions like Zoom and Teams and the English language and America as a reliable democracy. Weather or not they get Greenland, Trump and his supporters in the US administration have changed the world. Guy should definitely get Nobel prize for pushing decentralization.

Completely confused about which parts are sarcasm. Pretty sure the last sentence is and by this the rest must be as well. But oh boy in what kind of world do we live where you seriously can't tell easily anymore.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#337

Post by sylvinus »

bee_rider wrote: post #271
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Code bases are on GitHub Not a very solid way to move away from American big tech :/

Maybe they have local copies as well, and just figured they might as well take GitHub’s free bandwidth and social networking features.

Exactly, we do have private forges we build and deploy from.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#338

Post by bdbdbdb »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #93
spicyusername wrote: post #3

Such a shame that so many U.S. citizens do not see the ramifications of their political decisions. Each one of these actions is a stepping stone the world is taking as a direct consequence of U.S. political negligence. And however difficult it was to render this consequence, it will be tenfold, or hundredfold, as difficult to reverse course.

Shame that so many EU citizens do not see the ramifications of theirs . EU citizens have elected ineffective leaders for decades -- leaders that ignored the potential to set up homegrown cloud providers, software suites or tech companies. They have elected leaders who were until very recently heavily dependent on Russian energy. As a result, EU dependence on US tech is near-total. I remember hearing a few months ago…

> EU citizens have elected ineffective leaders for decades -- leaders that ignored the potential to set up homegrown cloud providers, software suites or tech companies.

It's not like there are people out there on the campaign trail every election saying "if I'm elected, I'll ensure we build homegrown cloud alternatives". Nobody campaigns on issues like that. The reality is you have to choose between people who want to kick the immigrants out and people who don't, people who want to enact green policies and people who don't. People who want a European army and people who don't. These big issues are what people vote on, even if we care that there should be a homegrown cloud industry. I really do care, but it's not something I can do anything about at the ballot box

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#339

Post by sylvinus »

Arathorn wrote: post #267
wolvoleo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm not entirely true. The text chat of their suite is simply element.io (matrix) and they're paying them for development. Visio does seem built from scratch but I wonder if it's a temporary thing until element is feature complete with their move away from Jitsi. You can find more about la suite on their website and the opendesk one (German project using mostly the same software). Unfortunately I don't have the link…

Tchap (the chat part of the suite) is indeed a fork of Element. Unfortunately they haven't funded upstream development for many years (otherwise both Element and Tchap would be much much better!) Visio (aka meet) began in parallel with Element's work on MatrixRTC and Element Call. Hopefully the two can converge, given they are both built on LiveKit.

We do support the foundation: https://www.numerique.gouv.fr/sinformer/espace-presse/dinum-...

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#340

Post by dylan604 »

sequoia wrote: post #299
paulfitz wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Grist, the "tableur collaboratif" (collaborative spreadsheet) listed on the La Suite homepage. We're in the interesting situation of being both a NYC-based company, and open source software the French gov has adopted and is helping to develop. Grist is mostly a node backend. So it is a complicated story. The key is having code the gov can review and trust and run it on sovereign infrastructure. Grist https:…

wow it reminds me of Microsoft Access, a great piece of software in terms of rapidly building an application! Does grist have forms?

I'm not an MS dev type, but I've often seen these forms questions. What made their forms so easy, or more in general what is so complicated about forms that this was even a tool so many liked?
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