Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Self Driving Car Insurance

lemonade.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 359 posts

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#331

Post by fragmede »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #225
Rover222 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you greatly overestimate humans

> you greatly overestimate humans Tesla's FSD still goes full-throttle dumbfuck from time to time. Like, randomly deciding it wants to speed into an intersection despite the red light having done absolutely nothing. Or swerving because of glare that you can't see, and a Toyota Corolla could discern with its radars, but which hits the cameras and so fires up the orange cat it's simulating on its CPU.

Yeah even corollas have better sensors than a Tesla for driving in fog. It's embarrassing.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#332

Post by cucumber3732842 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #227
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if autonomous vehicles become common and are a lot safer than manual driven vehicles, insurance rates for human driven cars could wind up exploding as the risk pool becomes much smaller and statistically riskier. The assumption there is that the remaining human drivers would be the higher risk ones, but why would that be the case? One of the primary movers of high risk driving is that someone goes to the bar, has t…

Drunk driving isn't the primary mover of high risk driving. Rather you have: 1. People who can't afford self driving cars (now the insurance industry has a good proxy for income that they couldn't tap into before) 2. Enthusiasts who like driving their cars (cruisers, racers, Helcat revving, people who like doing donuts, etc...) 3. Older people who don't trust technology. None of those are good risk pools to be in. Al…

Classic car insurance is dirt cheap, even for daily driven stuff. Removing people who don't want to drive and don't care to not suck at it hugely improves the risk pool.

If there's only a small minority of human drivers people like you will have bigger fish to screech about there will be substantially less political will to perpetuate the system and it'll probably go away in favor of a far simpler and cheaper "post up a bond" type thing and much of the expensive mechanisms for grading drivers will be dismantled.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#333

Post by fragmede »

amelius wrote: post #320
physicles wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also in their best interest to set the price so as to maximize their own profits. If switching costs or monopoly power allow them to set a higher price, they will do so. Have we learned nothing from a decade of subscription services?

Nobody said we should allow monopolies?

Especially Adam Smith. The claims are scattered throughout The Wealth of Nations, but he hated them with specificity. He said they raise prices and lower quality, misallocate capital, and corrupt politics, among other things.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#334

Post by fragmede »

PunchyHamster wrote: post #291
gizmo686 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking, liability for a thing falls on the owner/operator. That person can sue the manufacturer to recover the damages if they want. At some point, I expect it to become somewhat routine for insurures to pay out, then sue the manufacturer to recover.

but tesla is the operator

Aside from the human in the vehicle holding the steering wheel with a foot on the pedal, that is.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#335

Post by cucumber3732842 »

fred_is_fred wrote: post #20
throw20251220 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does AEB in any modern car.

Tesla fans have not realized that every car made since 2021ish can do this.

About once a month my car makes me look like a piece of shit because the AEB gets confused by lane changes when you maintain speed coming up to slow traffic in order to wait for a good spot to move over. As you go to move over it'll flip out and brake as you slide left and no amount of gas pedal will override it so you wind up moving over a lane only to brake check that lane. Thankfully it doesn't do a full stop, just brakes for long enough to realize there's nothing there.

0/10. Someone is gonna cause a multi-car pile up with this.

I'm sure it would work great to prevent me from texting my way into the back of stopped traffic though.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#338

Post by paulddraper »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #155
DaSHacka wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All according to plan

It already doesn't make sense to own a car for me. It's cheaper to just call an Uber.

Depends how often.

Multiple Ubers per day are expensive. ($55 x 365 = $20,000)

All in, a budget car costs less than half of that per year.

But if you replace some of that with public transportation, or a car is otherwise impractical, the math changes.

Re: Self Driving Car Insurance

#339

Post by einpoklum »

kube-system wrote: post #323
einpoklum wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that might be considered a legal trick. Suppose that, when you pay for a taxi, the standard conditions of carriage would make it your responsibility to supervise the vehicle operation and alert the driver so as to avoid accidents. Would the taxi driver and taxi company be able to eschew liability through that formalism? Probably not. The fact that Tesla makes you sign something does not automatically make the sig…

No, Tesla doesn’t assign you liability by making you sign something. The law makes the driver of a vehicle liable for the operation, as it always has. My first sentence was to say that even if the law treats autonomous vehicles differently, Tesla doesn’t sell one.

> The law makes the driver of a vehicle liable for the operation, as it always has.

So, either those Tesla's don't really self-drive (which may be the case, I don't know, but then the whole discussion is moot), or they do, in which case, the human wasn't the one driving and may thus avoid liability.

Then of course there is the possibility that the court might be convinced the car was being drive collaboratively by the human and the car/the computer, in which case Tesla and the human might share the liability. IANA(US)L though.

Post reply on HN