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Outlawed by Amazon DRM

bekkelund.net

331–340 of 494 posts

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#331
post #311

I'm not saying this to be rude, so I apologize in advance if you personally take offence: In my mind, you're a complete idiot if you are an e-book consumer at this point in time. You essentially rent the book for a price often higher than owning a physical copy of the exact same material. All this for the slight mobility advantage, and instant purchase ability. You can't share your ebooks with friends. You run the ri…

You're understating the benefits and missing a few key ones. First, the instant purchase ability is extremely important. It means that books gain some measure of equality with other forms of media (the internet, movies/tv, music). With a Kindle I can read whatever book I want whenever I want, which means that I read many more books than I used to. Second, the mobility advantage isn't slight at all, especially for peo…

I'm understating the benefits because I highly doubt the average person is reading anywhere close to what you are reading. Personally, I'm not exactly sure where you are finding the time to read this much, but I digress.

A vast majority of people read one book at a time. Two max. Given this, the idea that there is a massive benefit in portability is completely overstated - few people (outside of students) were carrying ten pounds of books around with them to support their reading habits.

This same line of thinking holds true with purchasing. There is most certainly a convenience in not having to visit a store (or even order online), but most people read at a pace that is fully supportive of being able to find their next read in the traditional manner.

That being said, I recognize these are both advantages. What I'm saying though is that there are very few people where this "advantage" makes any form of economic sense. Assuming your usage, this advantage is costing you $200-$500 a year. And your purchase isn't one of ownership.

The argument for e-books right now is like leasing a car for $50 more a month than you can buy it for. Sure there are advantages to leasing, but logically, they don't come close to outweighing the costs.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#332
post #158
post #152

Could you ever imagine a local retailer in your area breaking and entering into your home, taking away all your books, and then not giving you a straightforward explanation as to why they did so? Me neither. Breaking and entering into someone else's physical property, and talking away their physical possessions without explanation is so obviously wrong and illegal! Yet that's pretty much what Amazon did to this poor…

It absolutely should be illegal to delete files from a device that is currently rented or owned by another party unless they give explicit permission. It should be wire fraud, just like hacking a server and forcing it to act in a way the owner does not desire.

The issue is not the user permission, the issue is that in the physical world, the retailer would have to go through the court system to take away a right or property.

It's interesting how http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Lessig described this situation back in 2004 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Culture_%28book%29

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#333
post #244

I can absolutely agree that the story is very disturbing, however I also believe that it is an Amazon's right as a private company to do whatever the hell it wants with products an services it provides. The problem is not that it can or cannot legally wipe out the contents of its devices, the problem is that there's not enough competition yet. If Amazon was in a very harsh competition with any another company for ebo…

> Since ebooks is not exactly a very regulated industry...

Definitely is a highly regulated (gov't, media co.'s) industry. Without knowing anything else about it - how hard is it to create a web application to serve e-book content? Not very. Yet how many good ones exist? One? Two? That alone should tell you there's a ton of baggage that goes with the market.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#334

I know it's not the best attitude, but if this ever happened to me I would simply pirate all the books I'd purchased from amazon, side load them onto my kindle and keep reading guilt free. A part of me would like to dump amazon due to stories like this, but at the end of the day the whole set up is just too convenient (I can find, 'buy', and start reading a book in less than a minute directly from my kindle) The wors…

We all make concessions for something (unless you're rms). I refuse to buy DRM laden ebooks, yet I've spent thousands of dollars on Steam games. I don't mind the inconveniences of using paper books but when it comes to PC games Steam is just to convenient for me to ignore. I know I could lose access to hundreds of games suddenly and without warning, yet I continue to give Valve my business.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#335
The fact that Amazon can do this is obviously scary, particularly for those with extensive Kindle libraries. Personally I love the idea of ebooks but the publishers are doing their best to kill this market (eg Surface Detail in paperback is $6, as an ebook its $10 WTF?).

Now I can't speak to the truth of these claims. I have no inside knowledge but I will say this: be skeptical of such stories. I have seen other stories like this on HN where I have had some inside knowledge and I can tell you that there have definitely been cases that vary between being one side of the story to being a distortion of facts and events to being outright lies.

It's a common theme to have a post of "[BigCo] shut down my account for no reason". I describe such stories as "unverifiable stories in which the poster is a victim".

Like I said, this could all be exactly as the poster claims but it might not be as well. It could be as simple as the person having the same name as someone who got blocked in the US. Who knows? Amazon needs to be extremely careful to be right in situations like this or they risk undermining the ecosystem they've spent so long to create.

I don't mind buying Kindle novels because I tend to only ever read them once. And if they were $6 (like the paperbacks often are) I'd view them as a throwaway purchase.

But when it comes to technical books--books I'll often refer back to and that can cost much more--I'll have to make sure I either only buy the PDF version or I buy the PDF+mobi+epub upgrade from the publisher after buying the Kindle book (2 thumbs up to publishers who do this BTW).

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#336
post #147

an increased number of stories like this will make the book pirating underground a lot more attractive to a wider audience. it exists, it's not quite napster-like yet but it's getting there. no DRM, a potentially wider catalog, etc. this is a risk for publishers and loss-leaders (like amazon) alike.

Piracy for books is quite interesting. There is already a lot of infastructure for sharing files (torrent sites et al.), but the new thing is how small books are. 1,000 books could be about the size of one standard def film (~ 1 GB). A lot of people are going to have a lot of books.

I am quite surprised the pirating of eBooks has not taken off. The infrastructure certainly exists, but I'm not aware of any exclusive, prolific communities in a similar vein to music and tv shows/movies.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#337
Regarding the policy violation, is it possible the problem was the fact she lived in Norway and was using amazon.com?

My experience, as a Canadian, is that Amazon encourages use of amazon.ca (your local version of their site) and you have to go through some tricks to use Amazon.com.

Many of my friends did because that was the only way to get a kindle and books for years. Are they all at risk of this?

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#338
This entire situation is the foundation of my reluctance to completely shift to 'online media'. I have always understood that I would be leasing the media and that it could be terminated for cause just as the article related. Rough stuff.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reasons are very subjective and calling someone an idiot is always offensive whether you apologize in advance or not. Anyways, I like e-books because, for me, the mobility advantage is huge and I'm less concerned about lending them to friends. The only reason I buy them from Amazon, as opposed to torrenting, is to support the author. I wish I could do that without Amazon but they do provide a useful service allo…

First, you don't buy e-books, you rent them. The book doesn't really belong to you at all, as this article points out. Second, you not only pay more to support your behaviour, you break the law for it as well. (Note: I'm not a supporter of this law, but it is nonetheless true.) I'm sorry but I cannot see how the average person sees this as a net positive. You are by definition acting in an idiotic manner. Idiot: - a…

There are several stores that sell content legally in DRM-free ePub, such as ebooks.com, not to mention all of the public domain content from Project Gutenberg.

Moreover, I think consumers who have purchased a legal copy of a physical or DRM'd book have the moral authority to torrent a matching non-DRM copy, legal technicalities be damned.

Please don't try to paint everyone with the same brush, or resort to name-calling. Techies usually understand the trade-offs and risks, and non-techies simply need to be educated.

Re: Outlawed by Amazon DRM

#340
post #280
post #252

I e-mailed amazon using a feedback form[1]. following is what I wrote. I appreciate if other kindle owners can do the same to help Linn and for the greater good. Dear Amazon, Your service was really nice to me so far. But I happened to read a news that was not comforting. Following is a link to the story. http://www.bekkelund.net/2012/10/22/outlawed-by-amazon-drm/ This makes me hesitant about making any future purcha…

One data point: I work on the Kindle and have a pretty good understanding of how the device works. I'm not aware of how to wipe the device remotely. It's possible to revoke licenses for DRM content, but I have no idea how to remove all books. I can't explain how to reproduce what the blog describes happened. If this person did in fact purchase DRM content and Amazon revoked it, then at a minimum the person should get…

I vaguely remember reading somewhere a long time ago that on books that show "Delete" they can't do anything, but on the ones that show "Remove from device" they can control your access to the book.

This would mean, the only way to save your investment on the Kindle would be to strip DRM using calibre (or the unswindle tool) and transfer those copies to your Kindle. Well, obviously this negates the entire point if you have 3G but maybe you'd have to host stuff on your own private server if you want all your books available all the time.

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