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Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

windowscentral.com

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Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#331

Post by AnthonyMouse »

seanhunter wrote: post #316
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they need a warrant to search your desk then they should need a warrant to search your computer.

And they do. But if they want to compel your accountant to provide evidence (say) they use a subpoena. So if they want to compel Microsoft to provide evidence they should use a subpoena.

A technical difference being that your key/password is not itself "evidence" of anything. A practical difference being that the relationship is more akin to that of a landlord rather than an accountant.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#332

Post by chaps »

hugh-avherald wrote: post #310
chaps wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I subpoena'd Microsoft once in part of some FOIA litigation I did against the White House OMB back in 2017. They, in no unclear terms, denied it. We were seeking documentation. I realize it's not a court order, but just want to add to the stack that there are examples of them being requested to provide something within the public's interest in a legal context (a FOIA lawsuit) where their counsel pushed back by s…

How did you sub poena Microsoft without a court order? Are you saying the court denied your application for an order to produce after Microsoft objected?

I might actually the details wrong. We requested informally at first whether Microsoft could provide information and they declined. Doesn't look like we ended up going down the subpoena route in the end so it didn't really matter.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#333

Post by bigbadfeline »

ben_w wrote: post #321
bigbadfeline wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when people actually start to believe... that law enforcement officers are worse thugs than regular thugs -- that's a fast way to turn into a failed state, where that actually is true. It's quite clear that if law enforcement officers are indeed worse or just like regular thugs the failed state will soon materialize regardless of what people think about the issue. Moreover, isn't the fastest way to a failed state t…

> isn't the fastest way to a failed state to have people believe that their security agencies are good and proper when in reality they aren't? No, but it used to be. The fastest way right now is propaganda. I'm not sure when the transition happened exactly, given we've had smartphones and social media lies going around the world before fact checkers wake up (even a while back there were questions about if some violen…

You are quite right about the dangers of propaganda in the time of AI and social media which is not only easily accessible but also addictive. I've observed people around me being misled despite their best intentions and above average abilities.

I also agree that we can't go back to the old status quo but we don't have to - it probably wasn't the right thing to do if it led to the current state of affairs.

I think, there's still a chance for positive change, not going back but forward. I'm not saying it's going to be easy but the implication of giving up warrant the pursuit of that chance no matter how small.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#334

Post by Forgeties79 »

synecdoche wrote: post #305
Forgeties79 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fourth amendment protects against warrantless search and seizure, it is not carte blanche to fill up your hard drive with child porn and expect Microsoft to fall on their swords to protect you. I was understanding and felt your points had validity until you threw out this gross, emotionally manipulative, horrible misrepresentation of my stance.

Only if you see it as that. More charitable is to see it as an example and clear case to illustrate of what might be beyond coverage of the amendment.

I see it as that because of the way it is.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#335

Post by pregnenolone »

RockRobotRock wrote: post #291
pregnenolone wrote: post #216

I’m not trying to defend Microsoft, but I think people are being a bit dramatic. It's a fairly reasonable default setting for average users who simply want their data protected from theft. On the other hand, users should be able to opt out from the outset, and above all, without having to fiddle with the manage-bde CLI or group policy settings. With Intel Panther Lake (I'm not sure about AMD), Bitlocker will be entir…

>It's a fairly reasonable default setting for average users who simply want their data protected from theft. Apple asks you when you set up your Mac if you want to do this. You can just ask the user, Microsoft!

It’s not that simple because most people will instinctively click ‘no’ without fully understanding the risks. They'll assume that as long as they don't forget their password, it’ll be fine – which is the case on Macs because, unlike PCs, Mac hardware is locked down. Mac users won’t ever be required to enter a recovery key just because they’ve installed an update.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#336

Post by JasonADrury »

bdavbdav wrote: post #323
JasonADrury wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacOS has basically the exactly same problem, ADP isn't enabled by default and your data gets backed up to iCloud unencrypted.

At least the option is there, unlike with MS. Also the option to (very clearly) create an offline account, which MS try very hard to stop you doing (read: don’t publish how, block off routes to doing it sequentially)

MS does offer the option to not back up your encryption keys online.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#338

Post by xp84 »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #263
xp84 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt those motives are "evil." They're in the business of selling and supporting an OS. Most people couldn't safeguard a 10-byte password on their own, they're not going to have a solution for saving their encryption key that keeps it safer than it'd be with Microsoft, and that goes for both criminals (or people otherwise facing law enforcement scrutiny) and normal grandmas who just want to not have all the…

Or use a MacBook, which somehow doesn't need to upload encryption keys Law Enforcement repeatedly failed to decrypt these here

> somehow doesn't need to upload encryption keys

Unless you use the newer Advanced Data Protection mode, Apple also have access to decryption keys for some things like iCloud backups.

Re: Microsoft will give the FBI a Windows PC data encryption key if ordered

#340

Post by aprentic »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #290
aprentic wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I mean. If you tell people, "I'll take care of safeguarding your key for you," it sounds like you're just doing them a favor. It would be more honest to say, "I can hold on to a copy of your key and automatically unlock your data when we think you need it opened," but that would make it too obvious that they might do so without your permission.

They're not doing them a favor. They're providing them a service . Trust is a fundamental aspect of how the world works. It's a feature , not a bug. Consider that e.g. your car mechanic, or domestic service (if you employ it), or housekeeping in hotel you stay, all have unsupervised access to some or all of your critical information and hardware. Yet, these people are not seen as threat actors by most people, because…

I'm not giving a house cleaner the combination to my safe.

If they offered to hold on to it for safe keeping, I'd decline.

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