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Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

reuters.com

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Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#331

Post by phil21 »

Sn0wCoder wrote: post #109
herewulf wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think the 2 to 4% is built into the prices of every merchant that accepts credit cards, big or small? It's not a great system but it's what we have so using debit instead of credit does mean losing out.

At the big box stores absolutely they have it worked in to the prices. I have no idea if the local mom and pop shops are working that 2-4% into their prices or not.

Mom and Pop stores are basically the only places left that reliably give you a cash discount for not using a card. Sometimes advertised at checkout, sometimes you need to ask.

Especially service companies. They tend to quote out "cash" (aka check/bank transfer) price and then add another 5% or so if you want to pay via card. There of course is very often an even cheaper "actual cash" price too you need to ask for if you are so inclined.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#332

Post by vel0city »

hvb2 wrote: post #323
silisili wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair argument, and if all companies decided to pass the costs directly on to the user at checkout time, the conversation/advice would probably be a lot different. For whatever reason most do not, so it's advantageous to use the one with better legal protections. It's not only about purchase protection/disputes, but liability and timelines when/if someone steals your card info and makes a bunch of fraudulent…

But most debit cards cannot be used with just the numbers. So I can give you my debit card and you can't do anything with it. You typically need a PIN for any decent purchase. Sure you can tap to pay but that wouldn't be a lot of money fast as it asks for a PIN above a certain amount. That problem of copying the card data is only because it's a credit card and that's all you need to make a purchase. As to skimming, i…

> But most debit cards cannot be used with just the numbers.

Every debit card I have in my wallet right now can be used anywhere a VISA is accepted using the same kind of number as a VISA card. I can go to any website that accepts VISA as payment, type in that same 16-digit number as any other kind of credit card, expiration, and CVV and essentially empty it out in a few minutes.

This has been true across many different banks. I have had ATM-only style cards issued in the past but I haven't encountered one of those in over 20 years.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#333

Post by xp84 »

sgerenser wrote: post #124
pc86 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I just don't use it enough but I can really only remember one time in the last ~15 years that I've tried to use my Discover card and been told they don't take Discover. I wonder if there's a geographical component, or if certain industries are less likely to take anything other than Visa/MC?

There is a geographic component. Outside the U.S. acceptance of Discover is not nearly as universal as in the U.S. So much so that in the letter that accompanied the new Discover debit cards they sent out, they had something to the effect of “maybe you should bring a backup card” if you were planning on using it internationally.

Ooh, I definitely wouldn't blame people for being sore about that aspect.

They should make a card with a second chip on the other end (that will only be approved if used abroad) so that you can still use an ATM on a trip.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#334

Post by Ancalagon »

echelon wrote: post #55
Ancalagon wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like one of their primary investors wanted out. It was probably not the opportune time considering the cost of money right now.

Do you think the founders were strong-armed and are pissed at this outcome?

while not the most ideal outcome, the founders likely have large numbers of priority shares and will see a significant payout

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#335

Post by phil21 »

weird-eye-issue wrote: post #289
Intermernet wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like asking "what does rent have to do with property prices?". Just because you've managed to be on the top of this perverse social summation of usury doesn't mean it isn't predatory and a net negative for society. Credit cards are one of the most insidious ways that banks extract money from those living closest to the margins of poverty. The benefits you gain are a fraction of the profits gained from raking t…

No it's actually like asking what cars have to do with debt. You can have a car without going into debt just like how you can have a credit card without debt. Since you have such high moral standards I hope you don't invest in any index funds because lots of companies in those would probably not live up to your standards

> You can have a car without going into debt just like how you can have a credit card without debt.

Technically this is actually impossible.

You have debt the moment you swipe/dip/tap that card and make a transaction with it.

That you settle the debt before it incurs interest is absolutely not relevant to the types of folks who do not want to carry debt as a matter of principle. I was one for some time while I figured my life out, and even having $100 hanging over my head for a few days was mentally tiring.

It's exactly the same as borrowing $10 from a friend to cover lunch and stressing about remembering to pay them back next week when you see them.

Some people for various reasons simply do not do well with debt at any level. I do now use credit for day to day things and pay it off every month, but that's the only debt I carry. And it is absolutely in every sense of the word debt. It's just debt that has a 30 day interest-free grace period.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#336

Post by jms703 »

xp84 wrote: post #90
c2h5oh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of EU population. Even in US debit is more popular than credit in 18-25 age bracket.

(Frame of reference: US only) That's a shame, given 18-25 is just the age where a credit card skimmer or online card fraud causing a big fraudulent withdrawal from your checking account, and weeks of waiting to get it back, could be devastating. This has happened to people in my family (likely from gas stations) but we only use credit cards except to pull cash from ATMs, so we only suffer a temporary dip in our avail…

Yes, in the US, if you are disciplined to not spend beyond your means, credit cards are much safer to use than debit. Sadly, the last I checked, financial discipline is not taught in our public schools.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#337

Post by vel0city »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #266
elzbardico wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, this is a non-existing problem in most places outside the US. Are you still using magnetic stripes?????

It's a non existent problem in the US, too. The internet likes to blow things out of proportion, but not only are pretty much all payments made with tap to pay for many years now, even when it was magnetic strip, the incidence rate was miniscule.

> It's a non existent problem in the US

Dead wrong. Its still a big problem in the US.

https://www.kansascityfed.org/research/payments-system-resea...

> In 2023, 21 percent of U.S. consumers experienced financial fraud: 17 percent of all consumers (or 18 percent of consumers who own credit cards) experienced credit card fraud, and 8 percent of all consumers experienced non-credit card fraud (with some consumers experiencing both types of fraud).

Sure, we've now moved to do tap to pay and chipped cards for a lot of transactions. However, this is useless for online orders which just requires knowledge of the magic numbers which all are helpfully printed on the face of the card you hand to people, tell over the phone, or type into websites.

We need to move towards actually secure online payment systems.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#338

Post by vel0city »

what wrote: post #190
tecleandor wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's way less common in Europe. Most places are chip and pin or NFC and that limits skimming quite a lot.

How so? My card was skimmed and I had only tapped it in maybe a half dozen locations. Never swiped it or inserted it anywhere or used it online.

You go to any restaurants where you handed the card to the waiter?

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#339

Post by phil21 »

marssaxman wrote: post #137
Spooky23 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re lucky. My colleague had his skimmed at a gas station and his bank froze his funds, causing his mortgage, car loans and other stuff to bounce. Major PITA.

I'm not lucky, I just don't use commercial banks. I had to get screwed over a few times before I learned that lesson, but it did eventually stick.

Eh, using a credit union is really no less risky - from personal direct experience. It's luck of the draw.

I have no experience with small commercial banks though.

Re: Capital One to acquire Brex for $5.15B

#340

Post by xp84 »

pitaj wrote: post #186
pants2 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a great solution to constantly have to top up your checking account with some amount between "I need this much to pay my bills" and "losing this amount would devastating" which for many people has quite some overlap

You can pay bills from your savings account with ACH in the US.

Interesting perspective. So, if I'm understanding you correctly, the pitch here would be:

1. Paycheck DD → straight to savings

2. "Spending money" for in-person transactions → transfer periodically to checking

3. Use debit card to spend from checking.

That's an interesting idea. Actually what is intriguing to me is another angle: I'd still never consider spending with debit. But my problem is that it's essentially impossible to get an ATM card that isn't a debit card anymore, meaning if I want to be able to use an ATM, I have to carry this stupid card around that would be easy to use to drain my checking account. With your approach, if I can get a savings account that is not linked to a checking account, I could use that as my default place where I pay my rent and credit card bills from. But it's a big if, because a lot of savings accounts have limits on how many withdrawals they can have per month, probably a residue of that regulation that someone else said was recently repealed.

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