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Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

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Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#331

Post by mmargenot »

internet2000 wrote: post #329
anoojb wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let's say TMSC reciprocated Apple's consistency as a customer by giving them preferential treatment for capacity. It's good business after all. However, everyone knows that good faith reciprocity at that scale is not rewarded. Apple is ruthless. There are probably thousands of untold stories of how hard Apple has hammered it's suppliers over the years. While Apple has good consumer brand loyalty, they arguably tre…

Costco does not treat their suppliers well.

Do you have a source for this? Most information I’ve seen around this (e.g. Acquired podcast, from the Costco side) claims strong positive relationships.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#332

Post by MangoCoffee »

jongjong wrote: post #301
Aurornis wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this scale and volume, it's not really about good faith. Changing fabs is non-trivial. If they pushed Apple to a point where they had to find an alternative (which is another story) and Apple did switch, they would have to work extra hard to get them back in the future. Apple wouldn't want to invest twice in changing back and forth. On the other hand, TSMC knows that changing fabs is not really an option and Apple…

It's ridiculous that a trillion dollar company feels beholden to a supplier. With that kind of money, it should be trivial to switch. People forget Nvidia didn't even exist 35 years ago. It would probably take like 3 to 5 years to catch up with the benefit of hindsight and existing talent and tools? And anyway consumers don't really need beefy devices nowadays. Running local LLM on a smartphone is a terrible idea due…

>If tech sector is so anti-competitive, the government should just seize it and nationalize it.

Trump is using his DOJ to probe Jerome Powell with a bogus lawsuit because the Fed won't lower rates on demand.

An independent Fed is the most important body for the USA. Lowering rates should be based on facts, not dictated by some bankrupt casino CEO. And now you want our government to nationalize the tech sector?

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#333

Post by MangoCoffee »

high_na_euv wrote: post #281
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed TSMC can do whatever they want. in 2027 no other fabs will match what tsmc has today, anything that requires the latest process node is going to get more expensive, so your apple silicone and your AMD chips

As of today Intel is very around leading node

yield is more important than leading node.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#334

Post by mr_toad »

lukan wrote: post #276
philistine wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has used both Samsung and TSMC for its chips in the past. Until the A7 it was Samsung, A8 was TSMC, and the A9 was dual-sourced by both! Apple is used to switching between suppliers fairly often for a tech company; it's not that it's too hard for them to switch fab, it's that TSMC is the only competitive fab right now. There are rumours that Intel might have won some business from them in 2 years. I could total…

But wasn't the reason they split with Samsung because they copied the iphone in the perspective of Jobs (to which he reacted with thermonuclear threats)? They did had the expertise building it after all. What would happen, if TSMC now would build a M1 clone? I doubt this is a way anyone wants to go, but it seems a implied threat to me that is calculated in.

If Samsung (or any other fab) were to make Apple chips they wouldn’t learn anything that a good microscope couldn’t already tell them.

Samsung still makes the displays and the cameras for most iPhones. They continued to do business even while engaged in legal action. That they are still competitors wont stop them doing business when it suits them. Business doesn’t care about pride or loyalty; only money.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#335

Post by lovich »

jongjong wrote: post #309
weslleyskah wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are maybe joking but I don't think the government nationalizing the tech sector would be a good idea. They can pull down the salaries even more if they want. It can become a dead end job with you stuck on archaic technology from older systems. Government jobs should only be an option if there are enough social benefits.

I'm joking yes but as an engineer who has seen the bureaucracy in most big tech companies, the joke is getting less funny over time. I've met many software engineers who call themselves communists. I can kind of understand. This kind of communist-like bureaucracy doesn't work well in a capitalist environment. It's painful to work in tech. It's like our hands are tied and are forced to do things in a way we know is in…

Bruh, with some very rare exceptions like valve, every company is run as a dictatorship or oligarchy. That goes beyond tech, hell big tech at least gives some agency to their engineers.

The only way you don’t need to be versed in compliance or group think at a US firm as an employee is to either be

1) independently wealthy, so your job is a hobby you can walk away from

2) have some leverage on a currently in demand skill, but the second that leverage evaporates they will demand the compliance

Also I realized I undersold it, they aren’t just run as dictatorships/oligarchies, they are usually run as command economies as well.

The whole capitalist competition style behavior only happens with inter firm interactions, not internal ones

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#336

Post by bigyabai »

827a wrote: post #311
paulmist wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be feasible for them to buy Intel instead? Starting your own foundry would likely take over a decade.

Yup; or potentially just purchasing a fab from them, given that Intel has signaled they want to leverage TSMC more, and much of Intel's remaining value is wrapped up in server-grade chips that Apple wouldn't be interested in. But also; Apple is one of the very few companies at their size that seems to have the political environment to make, and more importantly succeed, at decade investments. The iPhone wasn't an obv…

> the M5 in the iPad Pro outperforms every chip made by EVERYONE else in the world

No, it does not. The core inside the M5 is faster than every other core design in single-threaded burst performance. That is common for small machines with a low core count and no hyperthreading.

The chip itself does not outperform every other chip in the world, nor is it 10x more efficient than the 9950X3D. That's not even napkin math at that point, you're making up numbers with no relation to relevant magnitude.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#337

Post by CGMthrowaway »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #330
philistine wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has used both Samsung and TSMC for its chips in the past. Until the A7 it was Samsung, A8 was TSMC, and the A9 was dual-sourced by both! Apple is used to switching between suppliers fairly often for a tech company; it's not that it's too hard for them to switch fab, it's that TSMC is the only competitive fab right now. There are rumours that Intel might have won some business from them in 2 years. I could total…

>Apple has used both Samsung and TSMC for its chips in the past. Until the A7 it was Samsung, A8 was TSMC, and the A9 was dual-sourced by both! Apple is used to switching between suppliers fairly often for a tech company; it's not that it's too hard for them to switch fab, it's that TSMC is the only competitive fab right now. This is false. Samsung competes with Apple on smartphones. Apple even filed a lawsuit agains…

TSMC holds the real power. Apple’s stability and Nvidia’s cash both matter but AI demand is distorting the entire semiconductor ecosystem. There are no easy exits. Building fabs, switching suppliers or waiting out the cycle all carry massive risk.

In the long run, competition (where via Intel, Samsung or geopolitical diversification) is the only path that benefits anyone other than TSMC

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#338

Post by lovich »

to11mtm wrote: post #327
nialv7 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the smartphone replacement cycle is the only predictable cash flow people are holding onto their phones for longer: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/23/how-device-hoarding-by-ameri...

Still more predictable than GPU buys in the current climate. Power connector melting aside, GPUs in most cases get replaced less frequently than cell phones, unless of course you have lots of capital/profit infusion to for whatever reason stay ahead of the game. Heck if Apple wanted to be super cheeky, they could probably still pivot on the reserved capacity to do something useful (e.x. revised older design for whate…

Yea, it’s anecdata, but I only replaced my 1080 ti about 1.5 years ago.

Graphical fidelity is at the point that unless some new technology comes out to take advantage of GPUs, I don’t see myself ever upgrading the part. Only replacing it whenever it dies.

And that 1080 ti isn’t dead either, I passed the rig onto someone who wanted to get into PC gaming and it’s still going strong. I mostly upgraded because I needed more ram and my motherboards empty slots were full of drywall dust.

The phone I’m more liable to upgrade solely due to battery life degradation.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#339

Post by mr_toad »

philistine wrote: post #266
boringg wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter argument is that is NVIDIA friendly to their supply chain? I have to think that maybe they are with their massive margins because they can be - their end buyer is currently willing to absorb costs at no expense. But I don't know, and that will change as their business changes. Your underlying statement implies that whoever is replacing apple is a better buyer which I don't think is necessarily true.

Nvidia is famously a pain to work with. Apple vowed never to use their chips, Microsoft and Sony can't get them to make any GPU for their consoles. The only complete package integrator that manages to make a relationship work with Nvidia is Nintendo.

> Apple vowed never to use their chips

I thought that was mainly due to bad thermals. I always got the impression that (like Intel) Nvidia only cared about performance, and damn the power consumption.

Re: Apple is fighting for TSMC capacity as Nvidia takes center stage

#340

Post by BOOSTERHIDROGEN »

zvorygin wrote: post #252
_the_inflator wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. People confuse relative for absolute numbers. And ironically Apple acts like being a small contender the moment they feel some heat after a decade of relatively easy wins everywhere it seemed. So finally there is a company that gives Apple some much needed heat. That’s why I in absolute terms side with NVIDIA, the small contender in this case. PS: I had one key moment in my career when I was at Google and a…

How did you get into large scale manufacturing and production? Was it a career switch? Downsides? It too fascinates me. Any book recommendations?

Waiting OP response too, fascinating.
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