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European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

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Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#331

Post by palata »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #321
palata wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Europe can't compete with the US monopolies because all the good developers move to the US?

Yes that is what OP is saying and OP is correct. If you are young, talented and you have a crazy idea that might just work and if you are given the opportunity then you go to the US every-time. Why? Because it makes sense. Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US or better yet, start your own c…

> Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US

Have you ever talked to Europeans in your life?

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#332

Post by keybored »

lompad wrote: post #181
keybored wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And social democracy forked from the socialist tradition over half a century ago (GGP[1] said socialism/communism). So both you and GP are wrong. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46551378

Problem here being that those terms aren't used as defined in regular discourse. Language changes and casual use differs from academic use. When on an american-centric board anybody writes about "communism", I assume they refer to anything from marxism to stalinism to socialism to democratic socialism to social democracy up to anything non-hyper-capitalist. Not great, but sadly something to be taken into consideratio…

The fundamental reason why terms are confused is because malicious actors (bad faith) intentionally set up to at best muddy the waters and at worst associate things they fight against with the worst adjectives. That doesn’t reflect on anyone present right here, just a process that took decades.

I don’t care if someone “doesn’t know” about the nuance when they breathlessly throw back with One Cereal For Everyone Decided By The State. Come on.

> Please, look at the actual comment chain and it should be rather trivial to make out what everybody is talking about. Does your comment really add value here?

I can understand that you think my reply is pedantic noise. That’s simply because we have different goals and things that we intend to communicate. I’m content with setting the record straight. You apparently want to calmly explain the difference between apparent Stalinism and Bernie Sanders-style Socialism.

I think I am able to make out what people are talking about. But you can’t seem to, right in this context, imagine that we all have different goals ourselves about what we wish to get out of commenting here.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#333

Post by palata »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #319
palata wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there anything that stops today anyone from starting a new Google or a new Microsoft or a new Apple in Europe? The same thing that stops anyone from starting a new Google or Microsoft or Apple in the US, probably. And that's apparently not regulations. > It's getting tiring of hearing of the big bad Microsoft that stops poor Europe from competing properly. Who says that? I don't. What I say is that the big bad m…

> The same thing that stops anyone from starting a new Google or Microsoft or Apple in the US, probably. And that's apparently not regulations. The reason why there is no other Google in the US currently is because for the average person Google works fine so if you go to a VC fund and ask for USD 100M to build the next Google, you are going to have to sell them on your vision and explain how you are going to do thing…

I don't think I could disagree more :-).

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#334

Post by rdm_blackhole »

palata wrote: post #331
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is what OP is saying and OP is correct. If you are young, talented and you have a crazy idea that might just work and if you are given the opportunity then you go to the US every-time. Why? Because it makes sense. Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US or better yet, start your own c…

> Why stay in Berlin or Paris where you can make 50K to 70K euros a year at most and pay close to 40% or 50% in taxes when you can make double or triple that in the US Have you ever talked to Europeans in your life?

Have you? I am a European business owner just FYI. I know very well how much taxes I am paying each month.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#335

Post by rdm_blackhole »

palata wrote: post #333
rdm_blackhole wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same thing that stops anyone from starting a new Google or Microsoft or Apple in the US, probably. And that's apparently not regulations. The reason why there is no other Google in the US currently is because for the average person Google works fine so if you go to a VC fund and ask for USD 100M to build the next Google, you are going to have to sell them on your vision and explain how you are going to do thing…

I don't think I could disagree more :-).

You can disagree all you want, the facts don't lie but if you prefer to stick your head in the sand and pretend that none of this is happening, then by all means continue to do so.

This is a real problem with most Europeans honestly. Not being able to admit when things are not working. And then finally we wake up 5 years too late and the writing is on the wall.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#336

Post by CrimsonRain »

palata wrote: post #267
CrimsonRain wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blah blah. That's why almost all the tech companies in EU that (start to) get big, shifts to US. eu has a shit software industry and it has only itself to blame for the insane amount of bureaucracy, cutthroat taxes, labor laws that promote stagnation, and the culture of extreme risk aversion. It is a good place to live until the borrowed time elapses.

I don't have anything polite to answer to this :-).

Please post your impolite answer. I don't mind :)

EU (software) industry is a dream for mediocre skilled people. Secure a job once, can't get fired, do bare minimum and never be proactive.

It is a hell for people who work hard and fast. The whole culture is geared towards dragging down anyone who is proactive and makes others look bad by being too good.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#337

Post by CrimsonRain »

palata wrote: post #313
noo_u wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, at this point, an easily verifiable fact that software engineering jobs in Europe are en masse poorly paid relative to the equivalent positions in the US, and the majority of the EU companies that actually pay well are actually US based. This causes a lot of outflow of talent. That VC funding in Europe is atrocious is obvious to anyone who has had to go through it, and have fun letting a poor performer go from…

Are you saying that Europe can't compete with the US monopolies because all the good developers move to the US?

because EU suffocates good developers, gives free roaming to mediocre ones. EU cant compete with anything US or China except making more cookie laws.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#338

Post by pembrook »

zoeysmithe wrote: post #329
pembrook wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be a shame if an asteroid struck earth tomorrow as well. But given limited resources, we tend not to devote a ton of resources to every possible tail risk since there's millions of them. Europe should focus on building domestic tech capacity for other reasons (our own future prosperity being one), but being worried about Microsoft Word access over some silly news headlines is not one of them. Every single produc…

The US doesnt recognize many of the bodies you would use as enforcement against aggressive action on EU bought US products. Or for some it does, it gives itself immunity from them like the ICJ. Also considering the US's unilateral and often violent and aggressive and illegal way of doing things, especially with this administration, I think we're a bit past hypothetical meteor-like hypotheticals. At this point any usa…

Again, pulling Microsoft Office from the EU would be an extremely minor nuisance (libre office can open the same formats) at the expense of the US's national champion ever being used by any country outside the US ever again.

This is never going to happen (killing Microsoft would not be seen favorably by anyone in the current or future administration) and even if this magically did happen, it would barely cause a blip in the (lack of) productivity in the EU's performative planning meetings about future meetings where nothing happens.

On the list of things to worry about I would put this dead last.

This performative, melodramatic nonsense you're spewing here is doing us no good when ultimately our biggest threat is in the east, which you will happily continue ignoring as they eat our private sector and tax base.

"Orange man bad" is not a delusion I want to see spread any further in Europe. Turn off the news and start thinking rationally again please.

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#339

Post by eudamoniac »

saubeidl wrote: post #22
salvozappa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so reductive. Open source has nothing to do with communism.

As a socialist, I would disagree. Communism is about a would-be utopia after the workers own the means of production. For us tech workers, it could be argued that the means of production are source code. Thus, there is a socialist aspect to open source - but that's a good thing!

The means of production are computers, no?

Re: European Commission issues call for evidence on open source

#340

Post by c0ndu17 »

amavect wrote: post #302
qwery wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

later, ... there are 14 competing jargon files. "Free software" is a fine descriptor. It's needlessly confusing to repeat that "beer as in slurred speech" thing, though. Free software can be free "as in beer"[0], but the way it gets said makes it sound like it zero cost software is an anti-goal, rather than pointing out that it's not the true goal. Then the "free as in speech" thing is kind of pointless because you c…

Newcomers keep tripping on Free Software vs Freeware, therefore "Free Software" doesn't describe well. We could call it Freedom Software. (There now exist 15 competing jargon files.)

https://xkcd.com/927/
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