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Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

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Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#331

Post by specialist »

Animats wrote: post #111

Funny how the "story" doesn't link to the announcement it mostly copied from the CWA.[1] Here's the link to the union organizing page.[2] No draft union contract for Id, though. Interestingly, this is an industrial ("wall to wall") union, rather than a craft union such as The Animation Guild. IATSE Local 839, in Hollywood. TAG only represents specific jobs, mostly animation artists. A key point in TAG contracts is ho…

Thanks for explaining. This is a great win.

Noob me hoped "wall-to-wall" meant something like "everyone in the building".

Reasoning that once the whole of a company is unionized, it's a short hop to worker directed social enterprise (a co-op, more or less).

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#332

Post by chrisjj »

paxys wrote: post #19
thinkingemote wrote: post #2

I like the idea and encourage software workers unions. Is there an umbrella union that they can belong to? How effective are these new unions? I imagine these new tech unions don't have the same "shop floor" power as in industry. Why is this? Perhaps generally the ideals the new unions are advocating for are different than traditional ones?

While things can be bad in software in general, game developers need a union more than anyone. Conditions in that industry are horrendous. The entire period of a game's development is "crunch time". Everyone is exempt, so no overtime of course. And it is standard practice to downsize studios and have mass layoffs right after big launches. It's a shame that so many are drawn to this just because of a passion for gamin…

> It's a shame that so many are drawn to this just because of a passion for gaming.

"Just"?? It sounds like you've greatly underrated the value of indulging a passion.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#333

Post by chrisjj »

bufordtwain wrote: post #104
paxys wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While things can be bad in software in general, game developers need a union more than anyone. Conditions in that industry are horrendous. The entire period of a game's development is "crunch time". Everyone is exempt, so no overtime of course. And it is standard practice to downsize studios and have mass layoffs right after big launches. It's a shame that so many are drawn to this just because of a passion for gamin…

If you enjoy your job your employer is able to exploit you more?

If you are enjoying your job, you are happier to accept lower other benefits.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#334

Post by salawat »

charcircuit wrote: post #163
sallveburrpi wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or form a union and push back - why are you defending ID software executives?

Why wouldn't you defend the executives. They lead the company, so they have the power to make decisions on how it should operate. They will always have the power to choose how it operates union or not. Forming a union is just a power grab for the union.

Forming a corporation is a power grab by capitalists. Doesn't mean the labor force has to entertain or facilitate their delusions of grandeur.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#335

Post by salawat »

DesiLurker wrote: post #327
unionmember99 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, so if you don't want a union, but you want to achieve goals which are typically fought for by unions, what exactly is the alternative mechanism you propose for achieving these goals? This sounds to me like "I don't want memory protection, what I really want is for my computer to solidly enforce common sense memory barriers", or "I don't want defense attorneys, what I really want is courts to provide common sense…

Did you miss the last sentence or had your mind made up already by then? the reason I don't want a typical union is because they work out well where there is a clear separation of labor & capital. labor get paid wages & capital makes money off the invested assets. problem with tech is that in a tech ventures labor is a part owner and capital too (engineer equity). introducing a 3rd party (unions & union leadership) i…

So you walk in to negotiate with your capitalist overlords with an equivalent number of lawyers that they can field? Oh, they don't pay you enough to do that? Oh, you need to be working while doing this? Oh, you just got replaced because the default T&C's weren't good enough for you?

You are not a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire/billionaire.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#336

Post by salawat »

mrweasel wrote: post #67
doctorpangloss wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Situation: There are 14 competing unions. You: That's ridiculous! We need one universal union that covers everyone's needs. Yeah! Situation: There are 15 competing unions.

That's how it works in other countries. Unions are per industry, not per business, because per business is... weird and not really helpful. The union negotiates salary ranges for the entire industry, so it doesn't matter if one company is being difficult, their organisation (the one that organises the employers of that industry) have agreed to the ranges on their behalf. If you need to go on strike, the union members…

In the U.S. capital got sympathy striking illegalized as part of the Taft-Hartley Act around WWII, because labor exploiting network effects was just to unconscionable for the time.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#337

Post by DANmode »

hellojesus wrote: post #28
podgorniy wrote: post #20

Good for them. During economic downturns, when fewer resources are available for redistribution, collective action across population groups can help address worsening power imbalances.

To an extent. There is always the chance that the collective action discounts the impact to the business too heavily and ends up driving the company under, making the outcomes worse for everyone. We saw this a couple years ago with Yellow Trucking.

Yeah, it was the Unionization that did them, not the fact they were running a poorly-organized, filthy, low-morale operation…

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#338

Post by repstosb »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #243
overfeed wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's probably not a great example given that the rust belt was thick with unions. Perhaps we need to complete the thought here: was it the unions or executives that decided to offshore manufacturing? If the counterargument that unions are to blame for offshoring by "artificially" increasing the cost of labor, and should have competed with Chinese labor on price and they got their just deserts: then why are execut…

> was it the unions or executives that decided to offshore manufacturing? Neither. It was consumers, who prefer lower prices. > why are executives now (successfully) lobbying for protectionism against Chinese manufacturers? Because they were fools who thought they could offshore the factory work but not the management work. > If chinese goods could be ported as easily and cheaply into America and American labor was p…

>> was it the unions or executives that decided to offshore manufacturing? >Neither. It was consumers, who prefer lower prices.

Right, because every executive who pursued offshore manufacturing was thinking, "gosh, how can I deliver even lower prices and better value to my customers?", and not "OK, we've shown the market will pay $X for product Y, how can I cut my costs and free up more money for bonuses and cocaine?"

Graphs of price indices (aside from a few sectors such as electronics where it was the core technology that improved, not labor efficiency) and wages over the last 50 years clearly show that the bulk of any offshoring savings were not passed along to consumers or front-line workers.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#339

Post by wat10000 »

bombcar wrote: post #312
wat10000 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being forced to join the union to have a job there is little different from being forced to become an employee of the company in order to work in the store. It's extremely common to have a requirement to become part of some organization in order to work in a place, it's just that this organization is usually a for-profit business, and typically you only have to join one. People think very weirdly about unions. If you…

Try explaining that to the 15 year old who worked after school each day and after two weeks received a paycheck for $3.

Let’s not judge the world based on how a 15 year old would react to it. Mine just had a minor meltdown over bringing salsa to a potluck.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#340

Post by DANmode »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #86
overfeed wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that's cold comfort to someone who doesn't have a job because the company went out of business I suppose only those who lose their jobs because of a merger, or the CEO making poor decisions ought to get the warm and fuzzies because someone on the Internet won't blame them for their own misfortune. Somewhere on the spectrum between "egalitarian, flat organization Utopia" and "Slavery", one has to draw a line whe…

You forgot that collective ruin is also an option and we have seen this many times when societies attempted to do away with economic & market concepts.

Wait, which are those again?
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