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Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

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Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#331
post #11

TIL Ocado is supposed to be an automation/robotics co. I associate it more with delivery vans that seem to be in no particular hurry (unlike uber eats / DPD / UPS etc)

> Ocado has delivery vans that seem to be in no particular hurry (unlike uber eats etc)

True. the difference is that Uber eats takes an order and immediately aims to deliver it as soon as possible.

Ocado takes a grocery order, stores it and aims to deliver it e.g. "next Wednesday, between 6pm and 7pm", and you can modify the order until midnight on Tuesday.

Given that UK Urban traffic levels are unpredictable, the vans will occasionally be in position before the start time. There also is some time where the guy is in the back of the van finding the current order.

But you're right, as the public interacts with them, Ocado's role is "Deliver groceries in a van" not "automation/robotics". The latter is an implementation detail to us.

Also, several people's groceries in 1 van is more fuel efficient and less traffic congestion than all of those people each driving to a big store and back. So it's a win.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done a few projects in (traditional, not pure ecommerce) retail, and in my experience it is a very low margin business. This contrasts sharply with being an innovator in the robotics space, which typically is extremely capital intensive with very long ROI trajectories.

We're proving that automation can happen in that space profitably if done right - carefully, surgically and with a small, focused team. There's Autostore in that space and that system has a massively different economics than Ocado's solution, despite the similarities.

So, what you're doing? Sounds great!

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#333
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Kroger has the same service, we use it a lot. Grocery stores are annoying to me, and Kroger feels almost intentionally designed to piss me off, so that's why we use the pickup order thing. Beware: 1. Prices on the app are frequently higher than prices in the store. 2. Not all options available in the store are available in the app. 3. Don't assume they'll always have it ready on time. Or, at least, don't plan you…

I mean: Domino's also has a limited staff. And most of the process is very similar between Domino's and Kroger. Just pick out a selection of stuff on a website, and order it. They both provide timely status updates of that order. They both have varying staff levels and workloads. They both certainly have days when they're running very far behind, and days when they feel like they don't have much to keep busy with. Th…

One difference is that the Domino's employee's job is to make your pizza. None of their other duties are exactly rocket science. I ran a pizza place, I'd know. Meanwhile, preparing your grocery order is maybe the third priority on any given Kroger employee's list, behind running a register, stocking shelves, inventory, cleaning, tending to Kroger's spastic self-checkout machines, ...

I guess I prefer my groceries to be ready at a predictable time, rather than sitting around waiting between 1 and N hours. No experience I've ever had with food delivery in the age of DoorDash has made me think "yeah, I want more of this experience in my life."

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use Costco delivery at my house because it’s 10-15min each way to go there plus an hour at the place shopping at best (long lines are common). With 2 kids you feel that time especially given how frequently you have to shop for groceries. It’s a more limited selection but there’s plenty to choose from and I’m done picking out my groceries in five minutes. They magically show up at my door for very little extra cost…

> I’m not saying you’re wrong for feeling that way I mean I'm not feeling any particular way; I don't have a problem with the neighbours using it. I'm somewhat surprised that it makes sense for them, but each to their own. Myself, I just shop on the way home from work (my walk brings me past one of the supermarkets).

There appeared to be some tone/judgment in your previous comment but I guess I was mistaken!

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in inner London. I have multiple grocery shops around me - within 10 minutes' walk I have a fishmonger, two butchers, two delicatessens, three bakeries, three greengrocers, four mid-sized organic/international grocers, six patisseries, a large Lidl, and a very large Sainsbury's supermarket. I visit those local shops once or twice almost every day to pick up fresh bits and pieces - but I still get bulky or heav…

Balancing out the other comment - there's two real supermarkets within a fifteen minute walk of me (another American). It's fun to leave meal planning up to whatever is on sale that night. For people in the outer suburbs where that's not an option, I don't know why a service hasn't arisen where you can plug in, "we have X adults living here, they average Y meals per week made at home, we want Z grams of protein per m…

You underestimate how hard people’s food preferences are. They are really locked into their set of brands for each item. Immigrants pay huge markups to just get the same brand of tomato paste or beans they know. These are some of the most commodity style food items

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FC's can have very efficient fundamentals if done right. Sharing shops with direct customers is very problematic - while appealing, the scaling just doen't work for them very well. They're also subject to a lot of variability due to contention with said customers.

This is why next day delivery slots worked - shops were able to pack orders during quiet periods rather than suddenly getting slammed with delivery orders that will be picked up in 20 minutes just as the lunch rush arrives. Some of the shops we were delivering for had people they employed specifically to do this, and generally they loved it because it meant their staff were doing something during otherwise quiet peri…

Next day slots generally work for few customers. We offer delivery in the next 3-4 hours (unless demand is crazy) and the difference in demand when you offer 3-4 hours and when you offer next day is HUGE.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're proving that automation can happen in that space profitably if done right - carefully, surgically and with a small, focused team. There's Autostore in that space and that system has a massively different economics than Ocado's solution, despite the similarities.

So, what you're doing? Sounds great!

Right now we're doing two robotic arms and a lot of conveyor belts - some conveyors serve as just transport, others storage of order totes and some others serve a dual purpose (they move the totes but due to the length we let them buffer for a bit). Additionally, a lot of software automation to help people.

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#338
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean: Domino's also has a limited staff. And most of the process is very similar between Domino's and Kroger. Just pick out a selection of stuff on a website, and order it. They both provide timely status updates of that order. They both have varying staff levels and workloads. They both certainly have days when they're running very far behind, and days when they feel like they don't have much to keep busy with. Th…

One difference is that the Domino's employee's job is to make your pizza. None of their other duties are exactly rocket science. I ran a pizza place, I'd know. Meanwhile, preparing your grocery order is maybe the third priority on any given Kroger employee's list, behind running a register, stocking shelves, inventory, cleaning, tending to Kroger's spastic self-checkout machines, ... I guess I prefer my groceries to…

Oh, man.

My nephew works for Kroger, primarily picking stock for online orders.

He's a good dude and I enjoy hanging out with him, but I absolutely promise you that he doesn't do all of those jobs. He doesn't do anything quickly-enough to shift roles like that, and never has. To use a polite managerial description: He definitely works at his own pace.

I don't see that kind of task diversity at the store I usually shop at, either.

The register people do register stuff. The self-checkout people do self-checkout stuff. The order-pickers do order-picking. The people who bag groceries and fetch carts just bag groceries and fetch carts. The produce folks do produce. The florists florist. And so forth.

Sometimes I see a management-type range-walking from one problem to the next, but even that's exceptional.

It's the only real grocery store we have in the small city in which I live, so I get to spend a fair bit of time there whether I like it or not. I've spent years passively becoming familiar with the people who work there, and the jobs they do.

If they moved around much between different roles, I'd have noticed it by now.

(It's also a union shop, which may have something to do with it. When high-speed shifts from pushing a broom and heads out to the parking lot to fetch carts before he starts sorting produce, he's taking work away from the people who normally do those jobs and diminishing their roles. Unions may tend to dislike that kind of thing.

We didn't shift around much when I worked in union retail, either. It was a big deal for me to spend a day away from my department to help out with another one that was short-handed, and an opportunity was always presented for me to say "No, I'll just keep working where I normally work."

It was an even bigger deal if they needed help over on the grocery side of the store, which had a completely different union with a completely different contract. The union guys had to agree to allow it every time before that could happen.)

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#339
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a gas station that sells candy and stale jerky, a hard, sidewalk-less 10 minutes walk from me (probably 20). Not sure it would be feasible to go anywhere else. -American

You live in the suburbs, or a small turn, or a city? How do people in your area generally get groceries?

[deleted]

Re: Kroger acknowledges that its bet on robotics went too far

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for me. I buy fresh food via online ordering because I hate wasting time these days. Driving even to a nearby store takes 10mins round trip. Then having to walk through the store and fine what I need and checkout. I would much rather order online and get it delivered. Produce can still be a gamble, pickers have no incentive to pick the best produce but for the average meal, that’s fine.

We have mapped the planet, yet no grocery has a freaking map to find what you need.

When I was a kid, 30 years ago, some grocery stores did have an aisle guide printed on the cart. I haven't seen one recently, but they at least did exist.
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