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Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

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Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#331

Post by mindslight »

mylifeandtimes wrote: post #125
mindslight wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throughout my entire life, I don't know if I have ever seen anyone measuring their tire pressure or checking their oil at a gas station. Visually assessing tires can be quite misleading as well - my TPMS indicator was just on, visually it looked like one tire (its pressure was fine), and the tire that was 10psi low looked normal. Falling back to an attitude of not needing automation and instrumentation is a cope , an…

maybe an age thing? When I was in high school I worked at a gas station where we would pump the gas for customers at the "full service" lane and also check their oil. The game was to upsell people an oil change. Point is, everyone saw people getting their oil checked every time they filled the tank. And checking tire pressure was a 1x/week thing.

My point was that this is not any sort of widespread normalized behavior in the US in the past few decades. I was responding to a comment preaching as if this was routine behavior, and that people not doing it are simply being "inattentive".

I do get that it used to be a thing in the past. But that was also when oil was rated for 3k miles (I think? maybe it was even lower) and engines would routinely burn oil (ie consume it without leaving a drip spot on the ground). Whereas in the modern day, 15k synthetic exists.

FWIW, I probably do more of my own maintenance than the median HNer. I'll admit I can let intervals slip more than I'd like and I'm working on that, but this idea that everyone is checking fluid levels all the time just seems wildly off base.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#332

Post by mattmaroon »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #286
mattmaroon wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that’s great if you’re a CIA intelligence officer but what normal person can do this and still function in the modern world? Do the people who say this stuff leave their homes regularly? And what’s the benefit of it all? Fewer targeted ads?

Leverage over your insurance provider sound good to you?

I am not sure how that works. I guessed I missed the technoparanoid discount.

But I would value the time and inconvenience involved in this at more than my entire insurance bill.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#333

Post by ssl-3 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #319
ssl-3 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Information is good. I do have a walk around the car before I set forth, but stuff happens. Some drives are very long -- hours and hours between stops. I've had tires that aired themselves down during a drive. TPMS can alert me to that issue before I get an opportunity to have another walk-around, so I can stop and address it before it becomes a safety concern. It's fine if someone want to live in a world w…

Information is good but the number of "slow leak on a long drive" failures made less inconvenient by TPMS almost certainly pales in comparison to the inconvenience of maintaining the system for the average consumer. Acting like all this is a safety concern is just textbook internet comment section lying through ones teeth type behavior. Yes, anything can be a safety concern at the limit but even tire failures on the…

Low tire pressures are a safety problem. Low tire pressure increases the likelihood of catastrophic tire failure. People can (and do!) die from catastrophic tire failures (and from complications of them, like being run over while changing a tire on the side of the road).

I'm not acting. This is not a performative display.

But yes: While I'm happier in a world with TPMS, I'd be even happier yet in a world where it was a quick and simple job to disable it in a reversible way. (Perhaps in some manner similar to the incantations used to disable the passenger seatbelt chime in many cars.)

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#334

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

It's rather surprising/disappointing that "advice" like this makes no mention of how the automobile gains internet access

Does it (a) have it's own SIM card, (b) piggyback on driver/passenger/other vehicle SIM cards, (c) opportunistically connect to free wifi APs, etc.

Perhaps the surveillance data is only transmitted to the mothership when the automobile is being "serviced"

The automobile OS may be like the other corporate OS, e.g., iOS, iPadOS, Android, etc., in that there is no possible configuration or combination of user settings that does not allow data collection and surveillance for unlimited commercial purposes

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#335

Post by mindslight »

toast0 wrote: post #287
baubino wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in the pre-power-window 1970s and 80s, they absolutely do save time. You have to remember that manual crank windows went along with a lack of air conditioning. Being able to quickly roll down the windows (especially all four at once) in a hot car mattered.

My 2003 s-10 has AC and crank windows, my 2007 Ranger did too. Power windows sure are nice when you want to talk to someone out the passenger side and you don't have a passenger though. Or if you want a breeze regardless of AC.

> Power windows sure are nice when you want to talk to someone out the passenger side

Presumably the fundamentalists think you just need to yell louder. With neo-luddite opposition like this, its no wonder the surveillance society is winning.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#336

Post by The_President »

m463 wrote: post #172

> The first thing drivers should do is be aware of what data their car is collecting > You can opt out lol this makes it seem so simple. I think - you will never be aware of what data is collected - they want to collect more data and never disclose it - you will never be able to opt-out. Even if you disconnect from cellular, at service time they will just download what is there. - car manufacturers will use any and a…

Similar story with a user's earlier Model S - they used to drive it like they were being chased by the cops, and so when it was time to swap the degraded battery under warranty, (as they said) "a nerd" came out of the back of the service center "with a bunch of paperwork from the database" and Tesla denied the claim.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#337

Post by deno »

closewith wrote: post #313
jeroenhd wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean the modem used for eCall is the same that is used to transmit telemetry? Because that's a level of shitty I hadn't even considered. That said, it would go against the spirit of the law as I read it. There are always workarounds, of course, but that does pose an annoying problem to patch.

Yes, unfortunately in all modern calls there's a single Telematics Control Unit with a modem, GPS/GNSS, eCall (where required) and whatever OEM telemetry stack. Like you say, there are always workarounds, but none that the home-gamer can safely or legally modify without taking eCall out of compliance.

There are standalone eCall units for retrofitting, e.g. [1] and likely soon more since 2G/3G gets phased out. Presumably you could disable the manufacturer’s built-in system and use standalone system instead?

[1] https://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/emergency-call...

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#338

Post by ssl-3 »

birksherty wrote: post #292
ssl-3 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Information is good. I do have a walk around the car before I set forth, but stuff happens. Some drives are very long -- hours and hours between stops. I've had tires that aired themselves down during a drive. TPMS can alert me to that issue before I get an opportunity to have another walk-around, so I can stop and address it before it becomes a safety concern. It's fine if someone want to live in a world w…

Nonsense. People are still driving cars without TPMS, they can feel the difference while driving and do tire pressure checkups regular intervals depending on run. No issue.

Of course. A skilled driver knows their car very well, and can note by feel that the car is pulling somewhat to one side and correctly identify that this is due to low tire pressure instead of an external effect like road condition or wind, and then decide whether to address it or keep going.

A skilled driver can notice all kinds of other stuff using their senses, too.

For instance: When there's a plume of coolant coming out of the hood in front of them, they can deduce from observation that the engine temperature may be very high. They can also identify low oil pressure by observing the clacks and bangs of an engine that is starved for oil and tearing itself apart, or even by the silence of an engine that has ceased.

Or: Information. A light can illuminate on the dashboard the before these conditions are pronounced enough to feel, and the driver may then elect to use this abundance of information to take action before it snowballs into something that may become expensive or dangerous.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#339

Post by red-iron-pine »

rockskon wrote: post #291
emidln wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can be prosecuted for guessing urls you can be prosecuted for sending garbage data in a way you know will be uploaded to a remote system.

The DoJ lost the case they went after for someone guessing URLs.

link me

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#340

Post by monerozcash »

mindslight wrote: post #329
monerozcash wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the term “damage” means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information; Deliberately inserting bad data to mess with their analytics does in fact fit that definition.

You are construing "integrity" to mean lining up with their overarching desires for the whole setup of interconnected systems regardless of who owns each one. By that measure, stopping the collection of data is impairing its availability on their system. I would read that definition as applying only to their computer system - the one you aren't authorized to access. This means the integrity of data on their system ha…

Why do you think the CFAA is unjust?

What specific activities does it unjustly criminalize?

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