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France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

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Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#331

Post by mmh0000 »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #271
whimsicalism wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is cooperation? How are they supposed to unlock the phone? Unless you're saying 'compelled to use their private keys to publish an update' or something along those lines, in which case I would say the original headline is correct.

There is no law allowing the police to do that in France so that can’t be what cooperation means. In the case of Telegram, it was about providing meta data when subpoenaed and moderating the unencrypted part of the application. There is little reason to believe it is about anything else here. Edit: Happy to hear what the people downvoting actually disagree about as usual. At the moment I have read a ton of mud thrown…

Um.... There's no law doing what now? [0]

  Loi no 2001-1062 du 15 novembre 2001 relative à la sécurité quotidienne, article 30 (Law #2001-1062 of 15 November 2001 on Community Safety) allows a judge or prosecutor to compel any qualified person to decrypt or surrender keys to make available any information encountered in the course of an investigation. Failure to comply incurs three years of jail time and a fine of €45,000; if the compliance would have prevented or mitigated a crime, the penalty increases to five years of jail time and €75,000.[22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#France

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#332

Post by Nifty3929 »

moffkalast wrote: post #172
cedws wrote: post #130

Remember when they arrested Pavel Durov? I don't buy their official reasoning. Dear European friends, our leaders are tightening the screws. If we don't make our voices heard this is only going to get worse. https://x.com/durov/status/1976420399970701543

You know I didn't use to understand libertarians, but after years of watching boundaries being overstepped again and again I think I see the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods. Like, in Europe we already live in a completely safe society in historical and geographic terms, what more do you fucking want? Security is beyond a laughable excuse for things like chat control. Power tripping el…

"... the appeal of burning it all down and living in a cabin in the woods."

I hope that's not what you think libertarianism is about. I'm sure there are libertarians who DO feel that way, but it's not a core tenet to personally isolate and live off the land.

Libertarianism sees not left vs right, but instead the people against the government. Libertarians focus on personal liberty and solving problems together, voluntarily, as individuals cooperating. A libertarian would say, for example, that if I think a bridge should be built, then I should either build it myself or convince other people to help me out voluntarily - but not use government to force people to help (via taxes, etc).

Libertarians are against force/coercion, and see government as the ultimate expression of force.

There are some loony libertarians, as there are of any political party, but most of us have pretty ordinary and mainstream beliefs and priorities.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#333

Post by gruez »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #299
gruez wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also mentioned they only respond to court orders (ie. not just because the cops asked nicely), will try to appeal as well. That's better than most ISPs, who would either give up data without a court order, or won't bother appealing.

The problem is that there may be perfectly legal gag orders (issued by a court) that force them to comply to normal police requests - and you would never even know. NordVPN in particular removed their warrant canary without informing their users and only gave some retroactive PR answer when people rightly started to freak out. The simple truth is that if a VPN provider hasn't been shut down by authorities after more…

>The problem is that there may be perfectly legal gag orders (issued by a court) that force them to comply to normal police requests - and you would never even know.

Are there any VPN providers that claim they'll take the metamorphic bullet for their clients? I feel like you're setting up unrealistically high expectations where a VPN is like "we don't log or sell your data!", and you retort with "yeah but what if you get a secret court order or the government threatens your family?". I think nordvpn's response is consistent with what reasonable people's expectations are. Otherwise you can apply this logic to all sorts of interactions and find it quickly breaks down, eg. talking to a friend:

>"do promise you won't tell anyone?"

>"yes"

>"yeah but what if government subpoenas you, and grants you immunity so you can't plead the fifth?"

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#334

Post by SSLy »

strcat wrote: post #285
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a backdoor in every phone? Some authority compels me to give them signing keys so now they can push anything they want, to any device they want?

They can't bypass disk encryption that way: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46038241 It does appear to be what they want from us, but it's not possible to bypass the Weaver disk encryption throttling via compromised OS updates or even secure element updates. It's fully not possible to bypass the security of a strong passphrase, which we encourage via optional 2-factor authentication support for fingerprint+PIN a…

Just wanted to say: don't listen to people who say you're crass or wrong. GrapheneOS' actions and words are great and a boon.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#335

Post by riedel »

udev4096 wrote: post #210
riedel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like grapheneOS. Their have a clear focus and that should be respected. However, all that drama about e/OS they are creating and claims about fascist law enforcement are a bit over the top IMHO.

e/OS is a fucking joke

It is one thing calling it a joke. I guess it is little more than lineageOS with the chance to have a non chrome web view (if I remember correctly). But the posts suggests that they are purposely misleading people: to me sending less info to Google is still a good thing for many people who do not want to give their data to ad companies (thus increasing privacy). Still I guess they should not be selling it to people that are the target of state actors (which I believe they are not doing) the posts seem to suggest some conspiracy IMHO.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#336

Post by riedel »

sapphicsnail wrote: post #102
riedel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like grapheneOS. Their have a clear focus and that should be respected. However, all that drama about e/OS they are creating and claims about fascist law enforcement are a bit over the top IMHO.

How so?

With such wording, zhey seem to suggest that somehow French law enforcement wants to crack down some democratic opposition with the use of purposefully insecure OSs such as e/OS. That seems to be a bit much of conspiracy theory to me.

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#337

Post by leeoniya »

strcat wrote: post #268
schoen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did "links" mean "a criminal organization is involved in the project" or "a criminal organization is using the technology"?

It's not clear what they mean by that in the threats they've made in multiple places but it's clearly a threat, and they're already lying about us. Therefore, we're leaving France including leaving OVH and not hiring people in France without them relocating first. Our most sensitive infrastructure is local but we don't want a state taking over our website and network services. We don't trust France and OVH to respect…

> We don't trust France and OVH to respect rule of law and human rights at this point. It's not a safe country for open source privacy projects and French companies cannot be trusted to even host a static website without hijacking it for French law enforcement.

VeraCrypt is French, too, iirc?

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#338

Post by greenavocado »

throw-qqqqq wrote: post #272
greenavocado wrote: post #250

Americans do not understand the fact that their own government rates the top four intelligence threats as French, Israeli, Chinese, and Russian.

Where do you get that ‘fact’? Can you elaborate? According to all the Annual Threat Assessment reports from the office of the Director of National Intelligence[1], the top four threats are 1. China 2. Russia 3. Iran 4. North Korea [1]: https://www.intelligence.gov/annual-threat-assessment

Of course they would say that

Re: France threatens GrapheneOS with arrests / server seizure for refusing backdoors

#339

Post by miohtama »

foxyv wrote: post #240
miohtama wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do you hack a single phone without a backdoor in every phone?

You use the signing keys for GrapheneOS to push an update to a single user.

Please read what you just typed.
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