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German government comes out against Chat Control

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#331

Post by [deleted] »

camillomiller wrote: post #307
looping__lui wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, CBS News dedicated an entire episode on these “propaganda stories”… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/policing-speech-online-germ... Germany’s constitution (the Basic Law) does protect freedom of opinion and expression, but it explicitly allows restrictions via “general laws” to protect personal honor, youth, and human dignity. Recent enforcement shows how this plays out…

Propaganda is painting this as something different than it is. Here we consider speech for what it is: something you can express freely, within the limits of civil society. If you pass those limits, then you incur in problems. Germany let someone speak freely a tad too much in the twenties and thirties, and they don't want to make that mistake again. I understand the point of "absolute free speech", and I would subsc…

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#332

Post by selfmodruntime »

jdiez17 wrote: post #287
pembrook wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, now show me the legally accurate description of leftist parties with the opposite political craziness within it. The greens are filled with communists for example. Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left.

Here you go: https://www.bmi.bund.de/DE/themen/sicherheit/extremismus/lin... Feel free to read the chapter „Linksextremismus“. It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases. Keep in mind that the definition of „extreme left“ refers to organizations that want to replace the basic democratic system with communism or anarchy (according to the German constitutional court). It does not necessarily include „…

> It talks about various violent Antifa groups and other cases.

As the time of writing, six different extreme left groups are tolerated within Die Linke and are also financed by their members. All of these groups are currently being watched by the government secret service.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#333

Post by selfmodruntime »

onli wrote: post #315
pembrook wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, now show me the legally accurate description of leftist parties with the opposite political craziness within it. The greens are filled with communists for example. Or the literal communist party, Die Linke. Why are they never referred to as the extreme left.

That's incorrect on every level. The greens are not filled with communists. They would feel very unwelcome there, given the capitalist move the party did in the 90s. Die Linke is also not a communist party. It supports capitalism, but targets a social capitalism, like the CDU did in the 50s and the SPD did until the 80s. There are communist parties in Germany, like the MLPD, but they do not get many votes. Background…

> Die Linke is also not a communist party. It supports capitalism, but targets a social capitalism, like the CDU did in the 50s and the SPD did until the 80s.

This is untrue and you will only have to go so far to read their party program to find out it isn't.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#334

Post by [deleted] »

camillomiller wrote: post #271
razemio wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AfD has f'd up views on many things. I wouldn't even be surprised if they would vote for it, as soon as they are in a position of power. However in its current state, they would hurt themselfs with a chat control law. So yes, your a right. I would also not expect them to vote for it.

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#335

Post by mordae »

pembrook wrote: post #277
angry_octet wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not in government just yet. But if they gain control, expect their position to change. That's why it is critical to reverse government positions across the block, or we'll see a new authoritarian wave sweep Europe.

[flagged]

The only reason for your high taxes and poor living standard is that some boomers have too much cash.

So they buy luxury apartments, outbidding you for construction companies capacity. Or they buy €20M luxury cars from limited 100-item series, outbidding state for engineers that could be designing next generation public transportation.

Public sector has been bled almost to death by regressive taxation, you bear nearly all of the tax burden so that a geezer who lived through nineties free-for-all can cope with his second midlife crisis while you struggle to get even a small apartment with ever-expanding commute times as you are forced outside of the city center.

Just. Tax. The. Rich. Geezer. More.

Seriously. If you've talked to some of them, they are not "titans of the industry", they are mostly greedy, average inteligence people that got lucky. No political nor economical nor cultural awareness. Half of them binge Russia fake news and/or Bloomberg and that's it.

God, some of those sick fucks even refuse to pay alimony despite owning huge companies. They would rather invent crazy schemes to hide their ownership and claim $10,000/y earnings than to take care of their kids. And they pay jackshit in taxes.

Not joking: https://www.seznamzpravy.cz/clanek/domaci-kauzy-beru-20-tisi...

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#336

Post by selfmodruntime »

notrealyme123 wrote: post #251
hopelite wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has neither now. It seems you were sleeping on duty. But I guess you can’t guard against something you either do not have the capacity to or do not wish to see.

Please clarify how people in Germany are unfree and unsecure now. Last time I checked we had free votes and I could say that I hate Merz.

Freedom of Speech is being actively harmed by 188 StGB being increasingly abused.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#337

Post by adastra22 »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #220
adastra22 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the history of nationalism in Europe, and Germany in particular? Hint: it’s the “Na” part of “Nazi.” You are getting downvoted because this pretty basic stuff. Either you’re part of today’s lucky 10k, or your post reads very much like far-right Gish galloping.

I don't know. It seems like from what you saying that you and honestly an enormous amount of people need to actually learn about 20th century European history and WWII. People are throwing around these terms of NAZI and Gestapo and all of this and I think they have no idea what they mean. The left is not against authoritarian. The left does not even want to really eliminate the police. They just want to be the ones t…

I do know my history. The Nazi party was a pan-German nationalist party. I'm not sure why this is controversial.

Germans, and Germany are obviously quite sensitive to the dangers of nationalism and authoritarianism. Not just because of WW2, but also the experience of East Germany.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#338

Post by selfmodruntime »

WastedCucumber wrote: post #279
snehk wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People's homes get raided and their belongings get taken away for daring to insult the ruling class or for making fun of them.

Give us some sources sonst bist du einen Eimer.

Someone calling Robert Habeck a dunce. And please, don't counter with that old Spiegel article that has been debunked a million times.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#339

Post by the_gipsy »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #156
layer8 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for example: https://www.bundestag.de/dokumente/textarchiv/2021/kw02-de-p... https://www.bundestag.de/webarchiv/textarchiv/2018/kw08-de-v... https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/19/304/1930412.pdf https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/19/111/1911127.pdf

The first one is bad indeed, but what's so "authoritarian" about the rest? > https://www.bundestag.de/webarchiv/textarchiv/2018/kw08-de-v... Other European countries like Switzerland, also banned full face veils(burqas) in public. Try entering a bank, city hall, school, etc with a balaclava, ski mask or motorcycle helmet see how that goes. > https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/19/304/1930412.pdf Allowing the surveillanc…

> Taking citizenship away from those who voluntarily join terrorist organizations like ISIS? 100% agree with this, how could you not?

Sounds great on paper, until it starts happening to X, which is your group, now suddenly a terrorist organization, and you happened to have joined in their view.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#340

Post by Lapsa »

tdrz wrote: post #118
echelon wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We (privacy advocates) have to constantly fight and win over and over again. We do have a way to reinforce our position, though! We can design and consume technology that makes this hard. We can stop working for companies that build centralized platforms for messaging. We can teach our neighbors how important rights to privacy and speech are in language that they understand. There can be enough friction that this b…

Yes to all of the above! I just want to whine a bit that every time I try to educate anybody about this, I am promised a tin foil hat in return (even from Software Engineers!).

tin foil hat doesn't work - you still hear incoming Frey effected radio transmissions
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