I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework • Hacker News Board

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#331

Post by jimmydoe » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 4:57 AM UTC

mrbonner wrote: post #140

seabrookmx wrote: post #122

The article is pretty light on details. Whether the Framework is worth it to you really depends on your use case. I never leave a laptop in my bag for three weeks, and if I do I have the foresight to actually shut it down rather than sleep it. So the battery drain while sleeping is less of a problem for me. My Framework 13 has the Ryzen 5 AI 340 Chip, and I get 5-6 hours of work on a charge. The Macbooks definitely b…

Let's me try to give you the solutions to your problems using Mac. 1. Homebrew: I use Nix package manager (with home manager, though you don't need to) and get rid of homebrew completely. 2. Docker: I assume you referred to Desktop version. You can just just Colima and the Docker/Compose CLI. You will get rid of all the bloats coming with Desktop. Bonus: see #1 for installing Colima and Docker CLI.

Colima constant take a lot of cpu, but issue gone after switching to orbstack which is not FOSS unfortunately.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#332

Post by cosmic_cheese » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:02 AM UTC

captainregex wrote: post #327

It’s crazy you have to go like four comments deep and into the sub convo before you find mention of windows on arm- apple silicon is just so dominant in the zeitgeist for people who think about this stuff

If there were a Windows on ARM laptop that blew peoples' socks off (the way the M1 MacBooks did initially), it'd make waves but that has yet to happen.

The initial round of Snapdragon laptops had battery life that was better than what Intel/AMD machines were capable of, but not quite MacBook level and performance wasn't quite there either. Then Intel's Lunar Lake came out and was about as good or better with none of the compatibility problems, basically stealing Qualcomm's thunder.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#333

Post by vocoda » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:05 AM UTC

pachico wrote: post #326

I am forced to use a MacBook M4 at work but I have and love my Framework 13 Intel. Battery management is superior in MacOS but I can leave my Framework suspended for more than at least a week (I never measured how long it can stay like this). I run vanilla Ubuntu with TLP, though, which might be the trick.

What’s TLP?

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#334

Post by Tade0 » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:12 AM UTC

shirro wrote: post #252

I don't remember having "range anxiety" under S3 suspend on my old intel laptops. It just worked and they woke up reasonably reliably and quickly under linux if you had a regular thin and light with integrated graphics. I had an Apple intel laptop that might have been marginally faster returning to life but it basically just worked on either. The move to modern standby has been a mess. It seems to have improved a lot…

> it seems to have become urban folklore that laptops turn on in bags, overheat and get damaged

My previous laptop cooked its screen like that. Some of the layers warped into a wavy pattern visible through the backlight.

My Windows work laptop has a low-power CPU, so the danger is minimal, but still it consistently goes full throttle when asleep.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#335

Post by dhosek » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:17 AM UTC

bo1024 wrote: post #138

whatarethembits wrote: post #43

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

I think you could shut down a framework, swap the battery, and boot back up in probably 3 minutes or maybe only 1.

My first Apple laptop, a Titanium PowerBook, you could sleep the machine and swap the battery and not have to reboot.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#336

Post by didibus » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:26 AM UTC

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

> If you can’t hibernate (aka suspend to disk) you will never be able to get that power consumption low

Does Mac hibernate? Because if it does, the wake up is literally under 100ms, it's just imperceptible. You open the lid and it's already awake.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#337

Post by vladvasiliu » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:28 AM UTC

beeflet wrote: post #181

fpoling wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the system use a boot loader? Or does it boot directly into kernel bypassing bootloaders?

It boots directly into the kernel without a bootloader. You can specify built-in command line options when you're compiling the kernel. To dual-boot, I boot from a removable USB drive on my keychain. When it's not plugged in, it boots windows instead.

This may or may not apply to your situation, but at least some motherboards have an integrated bootloader. You need to register the options with it (via efibootmgr for example). Then pressing a key (check your manual) presents you with the options.

This has worked with both Linux and Widows on all my machines: handbuilt 3rd gen intel with an asus MB, 6th gen with some msi, 10th gen with a cheap Gigabyte, and an assorted bunch of HP Elite desks and books with intel and AMD.

I understand there’s even a way for them to auto detect the options, but since this has been a set it forget it type thing, I never bothered to look into it.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#338

Post by Kbelicius » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:28 AM UTC

someguyiguess wrote: post #301

heavyset_go wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800 Yes, you will find that most material problems can be solved by buying more stuff. If they wanted to buy a new laptop, they would have done that. > You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting That's the case now. Meanwhile, with the Macs they use, I have to explain that there's a difference between Intel and ARM Macs, that no, their software won't work i…

I'm a huge Linux fan but "it just works" is not a phrase I'd use in the same paragraph as Linux. Try explaining to your grandma that she needs to open a terminal and run "sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade"

It seems that you haven't used it in a long time then. You don't need to go the terminal to update the system. Mostly you get a message that there are updates for the system. You click it, click update all and your done.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#339

Post by baq » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:29 AM UTC

skydhash wrote: post #233

baq wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Betterdisplay is $20 or so and solves the ppi problem for the most part. It’s the dumbest thing apple has ever done and hats off to betterdisplay dev. Best money ever spent on a desktop tool easily.

The solution is subpar, even if it's nice to have one. What windows and linux have is hinting for text and good antialiasing on vector elements. They map these those the actual hardware pixels so you won't have wobbly lines. These don't matter as much when you have high PPI. But they're a lifeline on low PPI displays (and there are a lot of those).

I completely agree, having gone through that frustration myself a couple years ago, but it at least makes the experience sort of good enough for my backend swe usage instead of making my eyes hurt. It’s still much better on other oses on the same display, absolutely.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#340

Post by vladvasiliu » Tue, Sep 23, 2025, 5:32 AM UTC

orbisvicis wrote: post #230

fpoling wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not understand why hibernate under secure boot is not implemented on Linux and this continues for years. It is as if the features are implemented by completely different people. But this is not obviously the case since systemd supports both and actively improving both. Note for me hibernation is a security measure and not about saving battery. I am traveling sometimes with the laptop and risk of theft is…

I have looked into this. It is possible, and documented on the Arch wiki. My main concern is constantly writing a large file to a small SSD.

There’s also the fact that some laptops have laughably slow SSDs. I’m thinking my 2020 HP elitebook whose nvme drive is basically always slower than my 2012 sata drives… it takes forever to write the 32 GB of ram to it. It’s actually a better experience tu turn it completely off and on, unless there’s something I absolutely need to keep in its current state.