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Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

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Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#331

Post by antonvs »

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #231
a3w wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Venus is room temperature with low radiation, if you dig in. Living on Venus was floating around as an easier alternative to living on the Mars surface. Room temperature is 21°C, I have no idea how many freedom fries units that is.

> Room temperature is 21°C Debated, was 23 or 25 in my college textbooks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_temperature > I have no idea how many freedom fries units that is. Kind of a bad attempt at humor? Imperial units is fine.

The US doesn't use Imperial units. It uses US customary units, which are different from Imperial in several significant ways, because the Imperial system evolved after the US split from the British Empire.

Also interestingly, US customary units are defined in terms of metric. So in a sense, the US does use the metric system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#332

Post by astroflection »

dredmorbius wrote: post #239
teekert wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't because you need to be encapsulated in a balloon to keep the toxic atmosphere out.

EVAs are still likely necessary. Tethering would be useful.

I see a new action/thriller space movie on the horizon.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#333

Post by WalterBright »

dredmorbius wrote: post #328
tasty_freeze wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walter, I never said he couldn't spend his money how he wants, so that really isn't a counter argument to what I was claiming. Personally, I think most people (Musk is just one) who thinks terraforming Mars is realistic have read too much science fiction and are more enamored of the cool Robinson Crusoe aspect more than it would really serve any purpose. As for "every one" of his successful business ventures being ca…

Agreed, and adding: Hyperloop wasn't original to Musk (other than name). RAND explored the concept in the 1970s, and there are further earlier concepts: Look up Robert M. Salter at RAND: "The Very High Speed Transit System" (August, 1972) "Trans-Planetary Subway Systems -- A Burgeoning Capability" (February, 1978) http://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P4874.html > PDF: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/papers/2008/…

All talk and no action.

Going to Mars isn't a new concept, either. There are probably a thousand scifi stories about such.

But Musk is the first to take action.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#334

Post by ubermonkey »

patrickmay wrote: post #305
iambateman wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to remember: 0 = freezing 10 = chilly 20 = comfy 30 = warm 40 = scorching.

30's hot, 20's pleasing, 10 is not, and 0's freezing.

Also fun:

FAHRENHEIT

  0: Very cold    
  100: Very hot
CELSIUS

  0: Moderately cold
  100: Dead
KELVIN

  0: Dead
  100: Dead

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#335

Post by kulahan »

eru wrote: post #119
kulahan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth mentioning that one of the more sane ways to terraform a planet is to redirect specific comets to crash into the planet. It would be "free" in the sense that redirecting an orbit is already actively being studied by NASA for planetary defense reasons. To actually terraform a planet in this method would be unreasonably affordable compared to anything else I've ever heard. edit: Plus, it's nice to split our…

> Plus, it's nice to split our eggs into multiple planetary baskets. Multiple baskets is good, but why planetary?

We probably won't get hit by a planet-ending meteor any time soon, but who really knows? Good for that not to be our end.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#336

Post by kulahan »

Lerc wrote: post #37
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tectonics isn’t the issue There would be little point in terraforming Mars. There’s plenty of places on Earth to terraform

Are there? Most places on earth have an established environment. There are things living in some very hostile to human areas.

Yeah I don't think we could terraform large pieces of Earth without throwing a very serious wrench into things. The Sahara fertilizes the Amazon, right? So even a nearly lifeless desert isn't acceptable. Maybe the poles?

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#337

Post by kulahan »

somenameforme wrote: post #202
rebolek wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2033 is really not conservative estimate for crewed Mars mission.

It's simply a flyby, not a landing, which will likely happen in 2035 for them. NASA was laying out various plans for exactly this in the 60s, with a timeline of the first crewed flight to Mars somewhere between the mid 70s and early 80s. And it was completely viable. The only reason this didn't happen is because Nixon defacto cancelled human spaceflight in 1972, in part because he was worried that a loss of life in s…

A Mars flyby?? With humans? I don't doubt it, but at the same time I can't imagine spending months in a ship just to look at your destination without ever getting out. Talk about cabin fever.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#338

Post by hwc »

Symmetry wrote: post #244
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you deorbit Venus is such a way that your inflatable balloon city comes to a gentle stop, 30 miles up, and just floats there? Worse still, when people need to leave and return to Earth, how do you launch a rocket from the balloon city and return to orbit? How do visitors or pioneers deorbit and land at the floating city? If there aren't materials to effect a repair, how long until it sinks down into the hellzo…

Gonathan Goff wrote bunch on what you have to work with in terms of what you can extract from Venus's atmosphere. While metals would need to be imported if you're going to pick some place in outer space to live its hard to do much better. https://selenianboondocks.com/category/venus/page/2/

Yeah, if you can't send robots to the surface to mine necessary minerals, don't bother building floating cities.

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#339

Post by glenstein »

glenstein wrote: post #275
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how you would launch rockets from a balloon city without disturbing the equilibrium of the balloon city because it is assumed that rocks thrusting down with great force would damage the balloon city in a way it would not easily recuperate from It's a floating platform. Same as the ones SpaceX lands its rockets on. Same as a gunboat firing projectiles. Will a launching rocket impart force to the platform? Yes. But u…

>It's a floating platform. Same as the ones SpaceX lands its rockets on. Same as a gunboat firing projectiles. It's a great comparison that helps me understand it a bit. In many respects, Venus's atmosphere is as heavy as an ocean. That said, I can still see how if you're talking about the upper atmosphere with pressure similar to what you would have on Earth, the force necessary to do a straight vertical takeoff imp…

Oops, that should be "and a lever long enough"

Re: Why is Venus hell and Earth an Eden?

#340

Post by dredmorbius »

astroflection wrote: post #332
dredmorbius wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVAs are still likely necessary. Tethering would be useful.

I see a new action/thriller space movie on the horizon.

Cue Sandra Bullock for At the End of My Tether.

That Movie Guy Voice: Above a world ... where the atmosphere will eat the flesh off your body ... and crush your eyeballs flat, only a thin kevlar tether stands between you ... and eternity...

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