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Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

331–340 of 679 posts

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#331
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

48 hours would also have been crazy. This should be a bill introduced in Congress, discussed in committee, voted on, and enacted with a date months in the future when it goes into effect, so that people, companies and government agencies can prepare and plan ... you know like an country with laws and procedures.

That argument went out the door when the last administration chose to open the borders. We have laws against that. But they were ignored.

An eye for an eye make the whole world blind.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#332
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has very strong "cruelty is the point" vibes. Hanlon's razor. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Regardless of what you think about the wisdom of the policy itself, implementing it rapidly is...probably not the best decision. But it's also par for the course for this administration. It's not clear to me that this is an intended consequence of the policy change, or just M…

This level of carelessness is malicious. Reckless neglect at best.

That's an assertion of opinion, not a fact.

This administration has a pattern of implementing policies this way, regardless of domain.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#333
post #134

This has very strong "cruelty is the point" vibes. There are a fair bit of international flights in the 10-12 hour range. Add some time to pack, get to airport, baggage check, get through security & how the flight times line up and this seems calculated in a way that is precisely not doable. Never mind people not perpetually online and only seeing this a couple hours later Meanwhile there is to my knowledge no reason…

I smell "grift is the point" vibes.

It's both.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#334
post #305
post #134

This has very strong "cruelty is the point" vibes. There are a fair bit of international flights in the 10-12 hour range. Add some time to pack, get to airport, baggage check, get through security & how the flight times line up and this seems calculated in a way that is precisely not doable. Never mind people not perpetually online and only seeing this a couple hours later Meanwhile there is to my knowledge no reason…

> This has very strong "cruelty is the point" vibes. Hanlon's razor. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Regardless of what you think about the wisdom of the policy itself, implementing it rapidly is...probably not the best decision. But it's also par for the course for this administration. It's not clear to me that this is an intended consequence of the policy change, or just M…

> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

How is this adequately explained by stupidity? Sincerely, I truly cannot imagine anyone in the US government is stupid enough to think "15 hours is enough time". This is like, 3rd grade levels of thought.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#335
post #213

There are a lot of bad angles to this, here is another one: What happens to people's social security they've build for the years they've been on H1B? (Or J1, etc. before that)? It's technically gone...

Not an expert but I think citizens of most countries still get benefits post retirement if they've crossed the 40 point / 10 year threshold, even if they're not in the US.

At least for now, who knows if that'll change down the road.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#336

UK around Brexit time thought kind of similar: let's keep the "riffraff" immigrants out by applying higher criteria. The narrative also changed this way: we don't want immigrants in general, but you , with your highly paid PhD-requiring job, you can go in, on a 2 year rolling basis. Then everyone's a winner, except for unwanted, unskilled labour. But a lot of skilled labour left anyway. Partly because the general atm…

> But a lot of skilled labour left anyway

The UK has had a "brain drain", but it's as much UK citizens as migrants. Economic migrants migrate.

> But also highly paid people have spouses, children, parents and other relatives. Once you are told you barely cleared (very high) criteria, you can be pretty sure your retired parents won't, if ever you need them to move in with you.

Skilled immigration is sold in almost all of the West as a necessary demographic cure. The classic "we're getting older and there is a labour shortage of working age people". The retired parents were never a part of the deal, and are of no interest to almost any Western country. Obvious given that it completely annihilates the justification for bringing people in in the first place.

So if these skilled workers aren't moving to the UK because they can't bring their retired parents, then presumably they aren't also choosing the US, Canada, Germany, etc., given the same situation.

Canada does have a family reunification program but it is not only spectacularly unpopular among the Canadian public and likely to fade away, it allows for a tiny number per year.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#337
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has very strong "cruelty is the point" vibes. Hanlon's razor. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Regardless of what you think about the wisdom of the policy itself, implementing it rapidly is...probably not the best decision. But it's also par for the course for this administration. It's not clear to me that this is an intended consequence of the policy change, or just M…

> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity How is this adequately explained by stupidity? Sincerely, I truly cannot imagine anyone in the US government is stupid enough to think "15 hours is enough time". This is like, 3rd grade levels of thought.

You're confusing facts with the opinions of others.

Read the EO. There's literally nothing in the EO stating that pre-existing visa holders are subject to the new rules. Someone else is interpreting the EO, and you're assuming that their opinion is the correct interpretation.

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#338
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy isn't supposed to be two wolves and a sheep voting on who to eat for dinner. There are supposed to be checks and balances. One reason we are in the current situation is because we have discarded these checks and balances, allowing for the president to behave more like an autocratic monarch. If the other branches of government were performing their constitutional function, and if the executive observed the n…

No, democracy is supposed to be two wolves and a sheep voting on who to eat for dinner. What you’re talking about are the anti-democratic measures the founders put in place because they didn’t trust democracy. Look, it’s hardly settled that “democracy” is a good thing. The founders didn’t think it was—they restricted the franchise to property owners, and provided for indirect election of the president and appointment…

You seem to be under the mistaken belief that democracy means deciding policy based on opinion polls. This is not how democracies work in practice, and opinion polls often show that most people don't want policy dictated solely by opinion polls.

Democracy is a governmental system where political power is vested in the people. It is characterized by competitive elections and the safeguarding of human rights[1].

It is by definition undemocratic for two wolves and a sheep to vote for who to eat for dinner. It is undemocratic to have gerrymandering. It is undemocratic to have uncompetitive primary elections. It is undemocratic for the police to quell protests. It is undemocratic to have state-backed propaganda, censorship, and misinformation.

Maintaining a democracy necessitates maintaining its institutions. An authoritarian one-party state does not magically become democratic just because it has an election or manufactures support for its project. Elections are an insufficient condition for democracy.

[1]: https://dx.doi.org/10.1353/jod.2024.a930423

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#339
Oh great, some of our vendors work in USA on H1bs and when they need to send someone on-site to us (in Canada), they send the Canadian.

I guess we'll be seeing someone new and unfamiliar...

(edit: the vendor workers might be in USA on TN status and might be okay for now, I haven't asked)

Re: Microsoft has urged its employees on H-1B and H-4 visas to return immediately

#340
post #20

This is not what functioning bureaucracy in a functioning democracy looks like.

Do Americans even want functioning bureaucracy? I'm starting to doubt they realize just how complex a modern democracy is, and how many moving parts need to work _just right_ for there to be jobs, money, media, law and order, free speech etc.

A presidential candidate should be able to campaign on "normal foreign relations", "independent authorities", "functioning government", "decorum in politics", "balanced budget", etc. shouldn't they? Maybe 10 years ago that would seem like obvious things you wouldn't mention. But now you should be able to win an election on _only_ that.

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