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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#331

Post by dragonwriter »

dlubarov wrote: post #135
beloch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though? So the US flips, Israel is pressured into withdrawing, Hamas regains control of the strip and resumes rocket attacks, Israel is forced to respond eventually. It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.

> Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though?

Ending unconditional US support is the only thing that motivates Israel to seek an end other than by genocide, which is a necessary (but not sufficient, on its own) condition for any desirable outcome.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#332

Post by Aunche »

roenxi wrote: post #272
GoatInGrey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.

If only the blue representatives would resolve this tension by pulling support for a now internationally-recognised genocide! :( I suppose that option is just too radical to put on the table.

The Biden administration brokered and pressured Israel into a ceasefire that asymmetrically disfavored them. Israel exchanged 30 Hamas militants per Israeli hostage. The ceasefire outlined a permanent resolution to the conflict, including Israel's full withdrawal from Gaza. They also pressured Israel to keep aid channels open during the war, which is exceptionally obvious now given significantly longer blockades and that famine broke out under Trump. The 2006 withdrawal from Gaza and Oslo Accords were also brokered by America. Israel would not have agreed to any of this without any security reassurances in the form of military aid.

On the other hand, there is no guarantee that completely cutting off ties with Israel, would make anything better for Gazans. While it's possible there would be fewer civilian casualties, it's also possible there would be more if Israel switched to from precision strikes to ground invasions and dumb weapons.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#333

Post by cnlevy »

Theodores wrote: post #20
jenders wrote: post #6

This is not tech related and does not belong on hacker news

I would agree with you if we were in 1994 and this was about Rwanda. Those tower blocks in Gaza that were felled on the anniversary of 9/11 were not taken down with machetes. We have got AI assisted targeting going on, with all of your favourite cloud service providers delivering value to their shareholders thanks to sales to the IDF. The corporation that once had 'don't be evil' as their mission statement are suckli…

Israel: Surrender or we'll destroy your city Hamas: Only if you let us rebuild and prepare the next war Israel: Starts destroying the city by bombing emptied buildings, these having received warning from Israel beforehand UN: Oh look, a genocide

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#334

Post by nick_ »

dotancohen wrote: post #311
Braxton1980 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel needs to take a more precise approach to getting rid of Hamas.

[flagged]

People who think it's acceptable to bomb civilian residential areas flat because they're "booby trapped" are lost souls.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#335

Post by kayodelycaon »

xyzelement wrote: post #327

[flagged]

Given all the hatred that is going around, I believe the genocide is real. And if it's not real yet, it will be if someone doesn't put a stop to this.

But all the reporting does not add up.

Half the pictures Hamas shows of starving children aren't legitimate. They're children with medical conditions, not in Gaza, or from a different conflict.

The number of people starving to death each day are in the single or low double digits. If what was said was really true, there would be tens of thousands of people dead by now.

And I don't believe a single thing Israel says either. How many tunnels were actually found under hospitals? Definitely at least one. Definitely not all of them.

A little truth makes all the lies more believable.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#336

Post by mandeepj »

hypeatei wrote: post #324
roenxi wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only the blue representatives would resolve this tension by pulling support for a now internationally-recognised genocide! :( I suppose that option is just too radical to put on the table.

You've thought through the full foreign policy implications for pulling aid from Israel overnight? I'm not sure why "less bad" on your pet issue isn't enough, especially when you're up against Trump, who has made posts suggesting resorts and golden statues of himself in Gaza.

> You've thought through the full foreign policy implications for pulling aid from Israel overnight?

I don’t think many people are thinking through now especially the one at the top of power chain, otherwise we’d not have witnessed child charades like invade Canada, Greenland, and Panama, as well as overnight gutting of USAID.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#337

Post by eirikbakke »

dotancohen wrote: post #263
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, this is meaningful because for the first time a legitimate international body is calling this a genocide. Previously, it’s been activists and claims that this might be genocide. I haven’t read the report yet. But I will, and I intend to leave my mind open as to whether this raises the profile of this war in my mind relative to domestic issues.

Go read this UNHCR report. All the evidence is just circular references to other bodies who reference each other. The most damning thing they could pin on Israel was that "Israel admits 83% of the casualties are civilians". That idea was because Israel could name 17% of the casualties in Hamas registers as members of the organization. But assuming that every other casualty is a civilian is quite a stretch. For one th…

Pages 51-54 contain a list of on-the-record quotes from the government itself. Those, at least, are not in contention.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#338

Post by TacticalCoder »

therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

[dead]

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#339

Post by therobots927 »

deanCommie wrote: post #284
GoatInGrey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.

And that was always known to have been a counter-productive protest. There's nothing ironic about this. They were told. They didn't care. It was unambiguously clear that no matter how bad you felt Obama/Biden/Harris were on Israel, Trump was/would be worse. If every single human life is worth saving (and it is), it's indisputable that Trump is worse for Gaza than Harris would have been. It was the ultimate Trolley Pr…

The trolley problem is an oversimplification. What we have is actually a repeated trolley problem, where picking the least of two evils gives the “less evil” party a near infinite amount of leverage over you to demand your loyalty regardless of whether they give in to any of your requests. The “less evil” party is in effect holding the people tied to the tracks hostage in your trolley problem. Because “less evil” is still evil, society decays no matter which way you flip the switch which leads to a population prone to fascism. The neoliberals are to blame more than anyone else for the situation we’re in today. They love to deflect but they are complicit in everything going wrong right now.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#340

Post by nradov »

leonixyz wrote: post #85

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN. The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US. The UN has voted for decades for ending…

It's weird to claim that one country should be forced to trade with another country. International trade is voluntary on both sides. The US isn't responsible for keeping any other country's economy healthy. It's simply not our problem, and Cuban economic problems are a consequence of their own corruption and dogmatic incompetence. Should the US also be forced to trade with, let's say, North Korea?

The UN serves as a valuable diplomatic forum but let's not pretend that is does have or should have any real power or authority.

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