Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 727 posts

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#331

Post by account42 »

gruez wrote: post #72
themafia wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the relationship between the bartender, the non-profit or the barista all revolve around physical locations where cash transactions or real work occur. There's actual direct value to be measured in the interaction. Further my interactions with the bartender aren't likely to be measured or even known about by the non-profit and vice versa. To the extent my "credit" is a factor it doesn't travel with…

>the non-profit or the barista all revolve around physical locations where cash transactions or real work occur. There's actual direct value to be measured in the interaction. I don't see how this is a relevant factor. If you're a karen at a restaurant who constantly sends your food back for the tiniest of issues, how is that any different than if the interaction happened online, such as if amazon gave you a bad cust…

> I don't see how this is a relevant factor. If you're a karen at a restaurant who constantly sends your food back for the tiniest of issues, how is that any different than if the interaction happened online, such as if amazon gave you a bad customer credit score for your excessive returns?

The difference is that the restaurant has a human evaluate if your complaints are valid while Amazon only sees statistics and doesn't care why you might have a high number of returns. The restaurant can also only realistically ban a few worst offenders before that becomes unmanageable for them while Amazon has no such cost associated why banning you. Then there is also the scope of the impact. You likely have many more alternative restaurants you can go to but no one really competes with Amazon as a whole.

> Word travels around, does it not?

Only in extreme cases. You won't be banned from all Restaurants in town just because Bob got offended. With a centralized credit score once you get flagged then those checking it will usually not even talk to you.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#332

Post by Akronymus »

ethersteeds wrote: post #291
philipallstar wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems identical to saying that convincing someone with anorexia that they aren't overweight is "social death", and "social death" is (somehow) genocide. I.e. it's nonsense.

[flagged]

dysphoria is certainly a mental illness, transitioning is merely one possible treatment for it (though, pushed as one of the first rather than as one of the last options, which I personally find concerning.)

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#333

Post by coldtea »

watersb wrote: post #272
Jensson wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was US ever a liberal democracy? People had much less liberties in the 1950s than today, with people getting arrested for their political views instead of just deported. not to mention segregation and such. They even put lawyers defending these politicians in prison for defending them... The constitution doesn't seem to matter since the government apparently don't have to care about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

> Was US ever a liberal democracy? People had much less liberties in the 1950s than today, Your question deserves an answer. The US was a liberal (post-Enlightenment) democracy. Senator McCarthy was eventually kicked out of Congress for his witch hunt. President Nixon was confronted by Republican members of Congress, and he resigned after this meeting rather than face impeachment. So when I was a kid, lawmakers large…

>Senator McCarthy was eventually kicked out of Congress for his witch hunt

"Eventually discarded when no longer useful" would be a more accurate phrasing. The witch hunts continued under other schemes and for other targets.

>As a liberal democracy, the United States has never been perfect, but it's always been worth improving.

Well, isn't that the case with every government?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#334

Post by FirmwareBurner »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #323
const_cast wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repeatedly denying GAC or banning PrEP as Republicans try to do every few months does indeed lead to death, yes. Granted we're not under Reagan, but Republicans are practically praying for another AIDS crisis and doing everything in their power to make it happen. Straight people largely don't know this because, well, it's not their problem.

Calling this genocide is ridiculous levels of hyperbole This sort of nonsense is why many people do not take LGBT issues very seriously If there was an LGBT genocide happening in America, there would not be open pride celebrations, come on

[flagged]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#335

Post by specproc »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them.

You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes.

The way non-OECD, "non-democratic" countries are portrayed in the West gives us a very false sense of superiority.

We have the same problems: gilded elites, crushing poverty, persecuted minorities, illusory participation in governance, terrifying police, rampant corruption.

I'm not saying everywhere is identical, there's a spectrum. There's just more similarities between countries than differences, in my experience. The things that often distinguish are more cultural and geographical than political.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#336

Post by coldtea »

krapp wrote: post #259
hax0ron3 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with what has been done in the Mahmoud Khalil matter. But it is a far distance between that on the one hand and what happens in places like Russia on the other. I'm not trying to minimize the dangers of Trump. My point is that there is a huge difference in the level of authoritarianism between today's US and what I consider to be actual authoritarian countries. Today's US is one of the freest countries on…

The distance is closing, it's already closer than many Americans would have considered possible. How close does it need to get before we should be concerned?

Blacks were once slaves. Women couldn't vote. Japanese-Americans were put in camps. Worker strikes were met with guards killing people. Rousevelt had amassed all kinds of extra executive powers and control of all aspects of government that would seem over the top excessive before him.

Is today really "closer than many Americans would have considered possible"?

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#337

Post by eadmund »

hammock wrote: post #258
bluedevilzn wrote: post #226

I moved from Canada to California for a new job with a mid six figure salary. I had a very difficult time finding a place to rent as I had no credit score. Only places that were available without credit score was a room to share. That was not an option with a cat, wife and kids. Finally, I found a place that was willing to accept the entire year's rent up front. Moving such a large amount of money from Canada to US h…

> We already live in social credit but I fear the ones maintained by companies might be better for the consumer. Seems to me to be dependent on how the incentives line up. A credit bureau WANTS you to part with any money you might have for a car. So it works out when they control the issuance of your loan. But would you want the NRA to control the social credit system regulating a firearm purchase?

> But would you want the NRA to control the social credit system regulating a firearm purchase?

I prefer that to Chase controlling it: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/19617/00019768782300... (the link details an instance in which Chase was alleged to have debanked a bipartisan, multireligious charity headed by a former U.S. governor, senator and ambassador). The NRA would probably let me buy the gun, after all!

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#338

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mrweasel wrote: post #311
FrancisMoodie wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? They don't check your credit score where I live (west-eu). They check your pay slip to see how much you make monthly and if it your rent is less than half your paycheck they can decide to let you rent. After that is a two or three month downpayment that is locked in a seperate bank account specifically for this use and is released at the end of the lease. If there is no damage to the rental unit you get back yo…

What? They are in no way entitled to see your pay slip, or know how much you make. Whether or not you can pay rent is entirely your problem (North EU). You have a deposit, typically three months rent, that's typically enough to indicate whether or not you're able to pay rent.

>They are in no way entitled to see your pay slip

They absolutely do in Germany and Austria. Renting is almost impossible without pay slips from LOCAL employers. Pay slips from your previous EU country don't count. So relocating is a huge bitch.

>Whether or not you can pay rent is entirely your problem (North EU).

It immediately becomes the landlord's problem here when they're legally not allowed to evict you once you stop paying rent. So they're trying to be 110% sure you're the ideal tenant who always pays on time. Especially since for many private landlords the rent you pay them is also their mortgage payment to the bank.

>You have a deposit, typically three months rent, that's typically enough to indicate whether or not you're able to pay rent.

Deposits don't mean you're able to keep paying rent since that deposit might be borrowed money or from illicit activities. Landlords want to see stable employment (well known employer, that you're past probation period, etc), not that you have a lot of random money in your pocket when you sign the contract.

I don't support this status quo, but it is what it is because it's a sellers' market and governments don't want to change that.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#339

Post by mr_toad »

account42 wrote: post #310
graemep wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My beliefs would have me ostracized from communities and fired from my job. but not landed you in prison or disappeared, I take it?

They might, if not now then possibly in the future. See e.g. people in the UK getting arrested for tweets.

If you’re telling people to punch other people in the balls maybe you should be arrested.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#340

Post by jychang »

eadmund wrote: post #328

> The only difference between your phone and China's social credit system is that China tells you what they're doing. And that I have a choice of phones, or even no phone at all, and none of my phone options is legally permitted to execute me. Further down, the article argues that switching costs between private companies are ‘enormous.’ I don’t know if they are that large, but however painful it is to switch from Ap…

> is legally permitted to execute me.

Plenty of cops have shot/executed innocent people, and were declared not guilty due to qualified immunity.

Plus, a phone in China can't execute you either. It'd be the police goons who do that.

Post reply on HN