Live data from Hacker News

I Am An AI Hater

anthonymoser.github.io

331–340 of 515 posts

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#331
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you care to connect with another human? Try to feel his emotions, what he tried to express? If you see no value in that, there's no discussion to have, honestly. For most people I know there's value in connecting with others and emphasizing with their emotions

But they just said they don't get what emotions are meant to be expressed, so how can they try to feel his emotions?

Many things require one to reject self-imposed boundaries. For example[1]:

> There's a story that, IIRC, was told by Brian Enos, where he was practicing timed drills with the goal of practicing until he could complete a specific task at or under his usual time. He was having a hard time hitting his normal time and was annoyed at himself because he was slower than usual and kept at it until he hit his target, at which point he realized he misremembered the target and was accidentally targeting a new personal best time that was better than he thought was possible. While it's too simple to say that we can achieve anything if we put our minds to it, almost none of us are operating at anywhere near our capacity and what we think we can achieve is often a major limiting factor.

---

Art is nothing like shooting. My first instinct looking at Guernica is that I also feel nothing, but one can limit oneself and say: if I feel nothing initially, I will feel nothing at all. If you prime yourself to be open to an experience of putting yourself into the shoes of the author, you might start feeling something.

[1]: https://danluu.com/culture/

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI openly has a goal to build AGI. We don't know if AGI without consciousness is possible. Some people think that it's not. Many people certainly think that consciousness might be an emergent property that comes along with AGI. >AI industry doesn't push for "consciousness" in any way. What AI industry is trying to build is more capable systems. If you're being completely literal, no one wants slaves. They want wh…

We don't know if existing AI systems are "conscious". Or, for that matter, if an ECU in a year 2002 Toyota Hilux is. We don't even know for certain if all humans are conscious either. It could be another one of those things that we once thought everyone has, but then it turned out that 10% of people somehow make do without. With how piss poor our ability to detect consciousness is? If you decide to give a fuck, then…

There aren’t many experts who think current AI is conscious. There are a lot more that think it’s likely we will eventually build something that is.

If that’s the case, the thing we are building towards is a new kind of enslaved life.

> We don't even know for certain if all humans are conscious either.

Let’s just bring back slavery then since we aren’t sure.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is just taste. The painting was made in a specific historic context and commemorates the bombing of Guernica. Without knowing that context, it may be appreciated as a disembodied visual artifact, but that's not how art really works or ever worked. An influential artpiece usually states something relevant to the historic moment and intellectual Zeitgeist of the time. You may like the music of Zombie…

I don't consider context a clear win. I'd argue that there's also quite the disconnect sometimes between what a work is about and why it's popular. Let's take Zombie by The Cranberries as an example. I really liked this song as a kid, still do, I think it has a great sound. The difference is that I now speak English, can understand the lyrics, and could look up the historical context. Ever since I did so, listening t…

If you value art for aspects that don't require intellectual or historical context knowledge then the best music is bubblegum pop and the best literature is pulp fiction and smut. And indeed people who most lack such context (teens) tend to like those most.

This is not to say that eternal themes aren't important. But art is a kind of social technology that mediates between people in given cultural contexts. Part of "the great conversation" across the ages, the part you can't express in logical essays or propositions. And the eternal themes pop up in different "clothes" at different times. Once you have the key to unlock them, you do discover the same human nature and human problems operating underneath as ever.

And the beautiful cathedrals are not simply beautiful for beauty's sake but their art often conveys very specific theological claims, often hotly debated at the time. Or the choice of subject may have been outrageous or novel at the time but mundane to us now.

Liszt's music may move us even today, but we can't quite appreciate it in the same Lisztomania way as it was then, when it was fresh and novel.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#334
This is spot on. Life is what you make of it. You, your people, your community. Otherwise it has no real meaning. What do you matter, after all, to someone who isn't even aware of your existence? But to score their latest riches the would-be AI billionaires would disrupt this, destroying our reliance on each other within our communities. Because AI can do it better! Without understanding that "it" at all.

All this while consuming more electricity that ever before, during an emerging global climate crisis. And destroying our water supplies to boot. There is no good in any of this.

Miyazaki was absolutely right. Though I'll paraphrase him just a little: Capitalism is an insult to life itself.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#336
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free not to use it if that is what you believe.

You are also free to give away all your money and not participate in capitalism if you wish. Wait, are you sure?

Yes, if you don't want to participate in capitalism, you're free to live in the woods and homestead.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, context is really important. But:JS Bach made a whole raft of music, and quite a large fraction of it was religiously inspired. In spite of that it is perfectly possible to appreciate it at a deep emotional level without that particular spiritual connection. This is the genius of art to me: that it opens up an emotional channel between two individual separated by time and space and manages to convey a feeling, a…

> And yet: it moves me. And I doubt any AI would have come up with it or even a close approximation if it wasn't part of the input. I would have thought similarly, but actually feeding 19th century poems to Suno and iterating on the prompts several times I got some results that moved me emotionally, as in, listening/reading the words with this musical presentation enhanced my appreciation of the poems and it felt mor…

That's a poster case for it being derivative works then. And of course, the more concentrated the input mixture the bigger the chance of some of that emotion leaking through.

I think there is a great case to be made here using purely synthetic sounds as the basis for emotion. Vangelis (Soil festivities), Klaus Doldinger (Skyscape) are great examples. These are sounds that have been produced exclusively by the mind and in spite of there not being a physical instrument involved they manage to convey imagery and emotion extremely effectively. This is technology used as an enabler. I've yet to come across someone using AI tech in the same liberating manner unlocking novel imaginary constructs in the way that those two did.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't get why you don't see it as a tool and not the creator itself. The human sitting behind the desk is the one attaching their emotions to what they send, because they control what image they want to send, otherwise they reroll or redo their work flow. These days they can even edit the image with natural language so they can build it up just as one does in Photoshop, only using words instead of a mouse.

> I still don't get why you don't see it as a tool and not the creator itself. If after 33 comments in this thread and countless people trying to explain a part of it you don't get it that may be because you either don't want to get it or are unable to get it. Restating it one more time is not going to make a difference and I'm perfectly ok with you not 'getting it', so don't worry about it. AI without real art as in…

Or perhaps your initial premise ("AI without real art as input is noise") is simply wrong. By "get it," I'm trying to understand why you'd believe such a premise, yes even after 33 comments, because there is no underlying rationale to it, or rather, you never state it in a direct manner.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#339
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they just said they don't get what emotions are meant to be expressed, so how can they try to feel his emotions?

Many things require one to reject self-imposed boundaries. For example[1]: > There's a story that, IIRC, was told by Brian Enos, where he was practicing timed drills with the goal of practicing until he could complete a specific task at or under his usual time. He was having a hard time hitting his normal time and was annoyed at himself because he was slower than usual and kept at it until he hit his target, at which…

Maybe. Or maybe one just gets it, or they don't, for a particular piece.

Re: I Am An AI Hater

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Words are the most indirect form of perception imaginable. Both Aristotle and Cassirer knew this What?

Aristotle: There are no contradictions. Cassirer: “Only when we put away words will be able to reach the initial conditions, only then will we have direct perception. All linguistic denotation is essentially ambiguous–and in this ambiguity, this “paronymia” of words is the source of all myths…this self-deception is rooted in language, which is forever making a game of the human mind, ever ensnaring it in that iridesc…

> Aristotle: There are no contradictions.

I still don't know what this is supposed to mean, and I am not unfamiliar with Aristotle.

Post reply on HN