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IQ tests results for AI

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Re: IQ tests results for AI

#331

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

terminalshort wrote: post #264
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very fatalist perspective. In HS, I was in a class with 3 kids, who were genuinely smarter than me ( not by a notch, mind; comparatively speaking I was just dumber ). I agree that pretending I was/am not dumb by comparison would not help, but suggesting 'nothing you can do about it' is not entirely accurate either. Frankly, the reason I slowly got less dumb is because of my exposure to them. There is someth…

I guess you could call it fatalist, but is it fatalist to say I was born to be 5'10" and there's not a damn thing in the world I can do to be 6'? Isn't it the same with intelligence? You may feel smarter now, but are you really? What, exactly, makes you fell like you are? Do you think that if you met those same people today they wouldn't still be significantly smarter than you?

I would argue that while similiar, they ( height and intelligence ) are not exactly the same. Brains have plastiticity to them, which allows some level of calibration and adjustment ( though seemingly mostly intended and used to overcome damage )

Best I can tell you is that, looking back, I was definitely dumber:D To your point, that may be just experience talking.

Now that is a good question. I think it is mostly reflection on what was and comparison to what is.

Hard to say; life has a way of beating you on a consistent basis and, from what I understand, all 3 have kids, which bring their own challenges ( you certainly can't pursue what you want to pursue as easily ).

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#332

Post by hirvi74 »

briHass wrote: post #302
hirvi74 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the most replicated finding in psychology Why would it not be? It's not like intelligence was some sort of unknown intrinsic discovery that psychologist happened to uncover. Intelligence was defined and the tests were created to support the definition. I've done quite a lot of personal, hobby-research on this subject, and I remain convinced that IQ deserves to be met with a lot of skepticism and controversy. I…

One that jumps immediately to mind is IQ testing used for epidemiology, such as exposure to toxins and the effects on children. IQ tests were used in the original study (Phillip Landrigan) used to show how leaded gasoline causes cognitive imparement in children. For things that cause sub-clinical imparement, you need a way to test for lowered intelligence, that doesn't rise to disability level. That's a few million,…

The trends of removing lead from gasoline and such were already happening prior to IQ being used as evidence. In fact, the only way IQ could be used as evidence would be for the lead to already have started to be removed. So, using IQ for such was a data point, but it was not the cause of the movement.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#333

Post by hirvi74 »

Jensson wrote: post #289
hirvi74 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the most replicated finding in psychology Why would it not be? It's not like intelligence was some sort of unknown intrinsic discovery that psychologist happened to uncover. Intelligence was defined and the tests were created to support the definition. I've done quite a lot of personal, hobby-research on this subject, and I remain convinced that IQ deserves to be met with a lot of skepticism and controversy. I…

> Again, whose life has actually been improved from this research? IQ showed there were tons of poor people with high IQ and thus it was worth providing higher schooling to poor people, that is a big one. Without IQ research people would just argue all poor people are dumb, but you can't do that now since we have proof that they aren't, they are just uneducated. Another group it helped massively was women, without IQ…

> Without IQ research people would just argue all poor people are dumb

I do not believe that this was true without evidence.

> do you really think women would get into higher education that quickly?

Yes. I believe WWII played a much larger role in this, i.e., men being off to war and many women filling traditional men's roles sufficed as proof that women were capable of many of the same tasks men were.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#334

Post by mensetmanusman »

pxc wrote: post #254
mensetmanusman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tend to tell me I have a high EQ, and I agree it’s hard to measure. For fun I recently completed a test where they just show eyes and you have to match their emotional state from a list (someone asked me to try this). I got nearly 100% when the average was 60^ or so. Thought it was an interesting approach to one aspect of EQ.

The EQ test I took had a component that was questions like this. I'm not sure how meaningful it is for me given that I've been visually impaired my whole life. Nowadays, I can rarely see the eyes of strangers. But I did kinda hate questions like this, found them unpleasant to think through. I scored normal on the overall EQ test, but didn't do as well on the portion related to reading eyes or faces. It's interesting…

They said people like me have a strong cringe response, which I found to be true - it can be vocal response indicated, but definitely a combination of verbal and physical cues. E.g. When fellow engineers start veering far left field in long rambling responses to marketing and business leaders I want to disappear feeling embarrassed for the engineer not realizing what is happening.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#335

Post by jacquesm »

hadlock wrote: post #318
jacquesm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty common. In the 80s (when I went to high school in Europe) the best way to predict whether or not someone would go to Gymnasium or Athenaeum was to look at how wealthy their parents were. It is still exactly the same today.

I had to research what gymnasium meant, in the US that just means P.E. which is a class where you do generic sports for an hour each day. Are you saying, in Germany, you can't choose to go academic route in primary/secondary school? The teachers and school decide if you will go into vocational school for mechanics, electrician, etc? That seems to imply class mobility is nearly zero in German education.

> I had to research what gymnasium meant, in the US that just means P.E. which is a class where you do generic sports for an hour each day.

Except... that's not it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school)

> Are you saying, in Germany, you can't choose to go academic route in primary/secondary school? The teachers and school decide if you will go into vocational school for mechanics, electrician, etc?

There is an end-of-the-year test for kids in what would be the 8th grade here (and this is not Germany, but the Netherlands), if your last year's teacher sucked or simply doesn't like you then you're off to the vocational school or at best HAVO because there are a limited number of slots for VWO (Athenaeum / Gymnasium).

> That seems to imply class mobility is nearly zero in German education.

It's not zero, but it isn't nearly where it should be, and again, my experience is mostly with NL. Merit matters but it certainly isn't everything and there are certain schools where the gatekeeping is very visible. One way in which this happens is by keeping the number of slots for the highest level artificially low in spite of demand. You then have the choice of moving out of a region to a location where there is room or to accept a lower grade of education for your children. This is very frustrating, especially because kids with the right last names of course always mysteriously get in.

The better schools have a system where they share the first year of high school between all of the pupils and only then do they give the option to choose which track a particular pupil wants to follow. But these are not in the majority.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#336

Post by empath75 »

Telemakhos wrote: post #25

AI has a 140 “IQ” but understands nothing. That’s because AI does not understand anything: it just predicts the next token based on previous tokens and statistics. AI can give me five synonyms for any Latin word, because that’s just statistics, and it can regurgitate rules about metrical length of syllables, but it can’t give me synonyms matching a particular metrical pattern, because that would involve applying know…

> AI can give me five synonyms for any Latin word, because that’s just statistics, and it can regurgitate rules about metrical length of syllables, but it can’t give me synonyms matching a particular metrical pattern,

I love when people say that AI can't do things that it can do.

me: give me a synonym for overconfident that is a dactyl

GPT5: A good dactylic synonym for overconfident is arrogant.

It scans as Ár-ro-gant (stressed, unstressed, unstressed), which makes it a perfect dactyl.

Other possible dactyls, though a bit less direct, include:

Ignorant (if you want to imply careless overconfidence)

Insolent (if you want a sharper, defiant edge)

Want me to give you a list of dactylic synonyms with slightly different shades of meaning (e.g., boastful, careless, reckless)?

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#337

Post by matthewdgreen »

EnPissant wrote: post #269
hirvi74 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can research claim the genetic component of IQ is so high when there are so many environmental variables that have to be accounted for in order for the genetic component to even be able to manifest? For example, if two identical twins are separated at birth. If one is raised in an educationally rich and nurturing environment and the other is raised in a horribly abusive and neglectful environment, then I am not s…

Here is a twin study that places the heritability of IQ to be around 80%: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/twin-research-and-hu...

My understanding is that’s way at the upper end and there are other reputable studies (which you can search for) that put it down around 50% in twin studies, which doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to be smart just because your parents are. But that’s irrelevant. The question being asked was: if IQ is genetic, why do we need teaching? This is like asking why you’d need ever need gas if you had extra-large fuel tank installed in your car.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#338

Post by tick_tock_tick »

somenameforme wrote: post #304
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're ignoring inflation. Real (inflation adjusted) median earnings are up 12%, in total, over the past 45 years. [1] That also understates the problem because many things (education, healthcare, debt costs, etc) are understated or not even considered in inflation measurements. There's also been a substantial increase in baseline necessities for the average person (internet, computing device, etc). Factor these in…

No, for the average person the cost of a basic computing device and the rent attached to operate it, is probably eating up the extremely modest gain in income. And in modern times that's not really a luxury so much as a necessity, meaning people today are in effect earning less, significantly less for many, than they did 45 years ago. I intentionally avoided entertainment, which is of course also greatly increasing c…

So everything is better, entertainment is ridiculously cheap, and they are earning more money?

You keep saying "effect earning less" but your own linked data shows the opposite.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#339

Post by robwwilliams »

hadlock wrote: post #318
jacquesm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty common. In the 80s (when I went to high school in Europe) the best way to predict whether or not someone would go to Gymnasium or Athenaeum was to look at how wealthy their parents were. It is still exactly the same today.

I had to research what gymnasium meant, in the US that just means P.E. which is a class where you do generic sports for an hour each day. Are you saying, in Germany, you can't choose to go academic route in primary/secondary school? The teachers and school decide if you will go into vocational school for mechanics, electrician, etc? That seems to imply class mobility is nearly zero in German education.

Sorry, yes “gynasium” is the academical track. There are two “lower” tracks. All decided when you are 11 years old!

Not sure uf this is still SOP but was in the 60s through ???.

Re: IQ tests results for AI

#340

Post by machomaster »

root_axis wrote: post #270
machomaster wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clear example of people confusing explanation ("how things are") with recommendation/support ("ought to be").

The controversy is with respect to "what ought to be". The fact that there are measurable IQ differences between groups is not in dispute.

All the controversy I have seen come from people, who think that even talking about possible differences between groups of people is racist, sexist, whathaveyou.
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