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Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

josefprusa.com

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Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#331

Post by ninetyninenine »

mrguyorama wrote: post #301
ninetyninenine wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no misaligned goal. China isn’t out to destroy the US. It’s more jealousy of being overpowered. It’s sad but I think this is ultimately the brutal truth we have to accept. There’s no other logical outlook on this. Literally if left to its own devices China isn’t interested in the war. The US is out to do everything to stop Chinas ascendency to become the new world power. And of course both sides as a result…

Why have they built innovative Taiwan invasion barges if they do not want war? Building weapons to sink American carriers and boats and having a limited nuclear arsenal can be seen as trying to prevent the US from being able to blockade China from it's food and energy imports. But there is no possible way to wave away the literal Taiwan invasion barges and the planning they signal. That's not something you build unle…

They want Taiwan. That's for sure. But they don't want war. War is a last resort action they will go to, to get Taiwan.

But war with the US? They don't want it and are trying to avoid it at all costs.

Taiwan is none of the US's business right? The war here is in actuality really just the US starting it. The US in the end will have to make a choice here. Do we fuck with China and Taiwan or do we not?

So in short. They want Taiwan. War can happen because the US is trying to start war. So the barges you see are in preperation for that.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#332

Post by Aurornis »

Ccecil wrote: post #295

I started in Reprap in 2011...frequently spoke with Prusa and many, many others in IRC. Watched the development and commercialization of the whole project through the years. My main takeaway (and one that I attempted to point out often) is that the value of the Reprap project and it's OSHW nature was not to "own a machine"...the true value was the process of building the machine, tuning and evolving. This all began t…

> "You are a fool to build your own printer when you can buy one prebuilt" came about. This seemed to be spread by people who either had no idea what they were doing...or were intentionally planting the seed of doubt.

I started with a self-built printer and even got some key parts from members of our local 3D printing community, true RepRap style. I've spent a lot of time upgrading, modifying, tuning, debugging, and trying different controller boards over the years.

I also have a mass-produced printer.

I enjoy both for different reasons. I would never recommend the self-built route to anyone who wasn't looking for a project. The mass-produced printers are so much easier to get to printing rather than spending hours dealing with the printer every time you want to print.

Honestly, getting the mass-produced printer reignited my excitement for actually designing and printing parts. Instead of dealing with the printer, I can forget about the printer and just get straight to my project.

> We were told that it was better/easier to buy 10 and throw away 5 in a year since it was more cost effective.

This is the FUD I hear out of the 3D printing purists, but it doesn't match the experience of myself and my friends with printers from Bambu and a couple other companies.

I can get spare parts for both printers just as easily. To be honest, I have more faith that I can get something like a replacement heated bed for my Bambu 5 years from now than the custom-shaped heater for self-built which is sourced from a little operation that has to carry dozens of different sizes and variations.

Every time I read one of these posts praising self-built printers and downplaying the mass-produced machines, it comes down to something like this:

> My current printer I built in 2015.

I have a self-built printer from that era that has been upgraded throughout the years. I also have a Bambu. It's hard to explain just how much you're missing if you don't have experience with both.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#333

Post by taeric »

hobo_in_library wrote: post #309
taeric wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is silly. My point was that we have better law enforcement period. Are we currently perfect? Of course not. But to use that as your argument is, amusingly, a silly premise for an argument.

Yes, that's why the people behind the United whistle blower "suicide" or the Epstein "suicide" we promptly brought to justice /s Our law enforcement is "better" when it comes to enforcing the law against the lower 99%. When it comes to enforcing it against the kind of people who're actually likely to kill to protect their secrets...good luck

I would expect things like this were far more prevalent in previous times. Like, comically so.

Again, we should continue to push for better things. But don't ignore how much better we are from where we were.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#334

Post by Workaccount2 »

ohdeargodno wrote: post #251
Workaccount2 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VC's gauge what the market wants, the Chinese government is one person who decides what he wants. One of these is grossly inefficient compared to the other, despite the final outcome looking similar from some angles.

"Capitalism good, but state capitalism bad". Not only are US VCs dumping billions in shitty Bluetooth connected dog collars and other kinds of crap, apparently according to you because that's "what the market wants", it's also an incredibly stupid reading of how the Chinese government works. They target specific industries that are important, according to them, like solar panels, batteries, cars, etc. They then dump…

I'm failing to see where our descriptions diverge. You aren't acknowledging is that China has unbelievable waste and crushing debt from it (provincial debt, because they typically finance these projects).

Of course the system is great for getting projects build and advancing. China has a massive workforce to fund it's money hose. It's awful for doing it efficiently, because there is no incentive to be efficient when you never have to pay the creditor back.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#335

Post by kennywinker »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #212
kennywinker wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Great! Here is a few million go make AI. So how is this different from the US? It’s VC’s making the choices not the gov - seems little different. Maybe scale? > They're not unfamiliar with burning tens of billions to get a few hundred million of value. The chinese economy seems like proof this is a valid strategy that pays off in aggregate. Yet when gov here attempts any kind of economic development policy it seems…

VC's gauge what the market wants, the Chinese government is one person who decides what he wants. One of these is grossly inefficient compared to the other, despite the final outcome looking similar from some angles.

Do you genuinely believe dictator-for-life\\esc\\esc president Xi Jinping is picking projects personally?

And if the problem is just efficiency, that’s not really a moral failing. It’s just an optimization issue.

I’m not defending the chinese system because i think it’s good - i’m saying it’s not substantially different from the american system. A group of rich oligarchs and a couple semi-randomly selected smart+lucky sociopaths get to pick industries that get flooded with cash based on how much money they think they will make or if they will stroke their ego - not based on if they will be good for the planet or the people on it.

I’d actually prefer a world where anybody who wanted to start a business was given a shot and money to make it happen based on if people want to work on it. Not blessed oligarchs, but the actual people who will build the thing or use the thing.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#336

Post by nine_k »

f1shy wrote: post #315
nine_k wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Repeating for umpteenth time:) I wish patent fees were exponential. Pay $10 the first year, $40 the second year, $160 the third year,.. $10,485,760 the tenth year, etc. The patent expires and goes to public domain the first year when the fee has not been not paid. This way there'd be enough time to commercialize an invention for basically peanuts, so the small guy won't be dissuaded from doing so. OTOH holding on a…

This is an excellent idea. I would still limit the time though. Also inflation should be taken into account (maybe) not that in 10 years 10M dollars is a chocolate.

Thanks! The idea is not mine :)

I think that the exponent grows so fast that it completely dwarfs normal inflation. If the inflation goes out of hand, Zimbabwe-style, then I won't expect patent enforcement to matter or work either. But well, a term like 15-20 years could be added just in case.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#337

Post by Workaccount2 »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #166
Workaccount2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being entirely dependent on Chinese manufacturing to make anything. This also has the downstream effect of no one young learning how to make stuff, which then leaves you as a society that is forced to buy everything from China, and puts China in an excellent position to rug pull American society if they want. I can tell your first hand, that the engineers in the hardware/physical product space probably have an averag…

> and puts China in an excellent position to rug pull American society if they want Those nations that were close allies of the US before 2025 are watching American society "rug pull" itself straight to hell right now with little to no effort at all from China.

The people of those nations are watching that, but they are unaware that they stand on the same rug. But their leaders at least understand that.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#338

Post by trenchpilgrim »

sarchertech wrote: post #316
hyperbovine wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For many things Prusa printers produce higher quality prints. I have yet to have this happen, despite a lot of trying. The Bambu just works and the results are better. The Prusa requires constant recalibration and tuning, and still produces an inferior looking product. I'd love to be proven wrong here. It's probably the case that somebody with a ton of experience can squeeze better results out of a Prusa ... but th…

My Prusa just always works. I spend virtually zero time doing maintenance or any kind of tuning. If you’re spending that much time fiddling with it, sounds like you either have much a much better eye for print quality than I do or you got a dud.

It makes a big difference if you're painting the prints - things that look okay out of the printer will turn into a disaster once paint brings out all the details.

People are getting great quality out of the Bambus now - basically a slight tier below Resin, without any of the health issues that require PPE.

https://youtu.be/R8fuNDTQJCY?t=725

(Old video, state of the art has advanced since. Also, the issue with his other printer turned out to be a simple maintenance item (dirty pulley) the video maker skipped over in Bambu's basic troubleshooting guide.)

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#339

Post by dpkirchner »

cluckindan wrote: post #213
tempest_ wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always think it is amusing that some people make the mistake of thinking that the Chinese can only make cheap crap(forgetting all their cell phones and apple laptops come from there). The American market only wants to buy cheap crap so that is what is made and sent. Usually though the skills involved in making something cut-rate are just as applicable to making something top notch. American manufacturing skills hav…

Maybe America needs a planned economy and minority ”re-education” camps to boost production.

Or maybe just better accounting for the total lifecycle and disposal of products. If a company had to pay a bond to cover the long term impact of their shit products I bet we'd see higher quality goods.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#340

Post by RobotToaster »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #60

China, being a planned economy at heart, has a "VC" system that is essentially just the government deciding what needs to be developed, and then Chinese banks lending without any practical strings to those developers. Profit and loss, ROI, business plan, aren't really factored in. China wants to develop AI? You have some experience and want to start an AI business? Great! Here is a few million go make AI. This is the…

The CIA has it's own venture capital arm (In-Q-Tel) for the same reason, it helped fund Google, Palantir and Anduril.
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