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Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

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Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#331

Post by dlivingston »

danvoell wrote: post #31
brotchie wrote: post #9

First AI thing that’s made me feel a bit of derealization… …and this is the worst the capabilities will ever be. Watching the video created a glimmer of doubt that perhaps my current reality is a future version of myself, or some other consciousness, that’s living its life in an AI hallucinated environment.

My take as well. Feels like something that is going to be plugged into my brain when I'm drooling in a nursing home.

Literally, The Matrix. (I just rewatched the first one for the first time in a decade and forgot how damn good of a movie it is.)

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#332

Post by stavros »

scarmig wrote: post #317
casenmgreen wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but this seems to make no sense. A neural net can produce information outside of its original data set, but it is all and directly derived from that initial set. There are fundamental information constraints here. You cannot use a neural net to itself generate from its existing data set wholly new and original full quality training data for itself. You can use a neural net to generate data, and you ca…

Humans are dependent on their input data (through lifetime learning and, perhaps, information encoded in the brain from evolution), and yet they can produce out of distribution information. How? There is an uncountably large number of models that perfectly replicate the data they're trained on; some generalize out of distribution much better. Something like dreaming might be a form of regularization: experimenting wi…

Humans produce out-of-distribution data all the time, yet if you had a teacher making up facts and teaching them to your kids, you would probably complain.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#334

Post by CharlieDigital »

creata wrote: post #308
jp1016 wrote: post #288

This looks incredibly promising not just for AI research but for practical use cases in game development. Being able to generate dynamic, navigable 3D environments from text prompts could save studios hundreds of hours of manual asset design and prototyping. It could also be a game-changer for indie devs who don’t have big teams. Another interesting angle is retrofitting existing 2D content (like videos, images, or e…

It just generates video, though, doesn't it? How are you going to get usable assets out of that?

Why wouldn't one be able to train an AI model to extract 3D models/assets out of an image/still from video?

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#335

Post by nosignono »

SeanaldMcDnld wrote: post #154
Workaccount2 wrote: post #27

I wonder how hard it would be to get VR output? That's an insane product right there just waiting to happen. Too bad Google sleeps so hard on the tech they create.

Consistent output and spatial coherence across each eye, maybe a couple years? But meeting head tracking accuracy and latency requirements, I’d bet decades. There’s no way any of this tech reduces end to end latency to acceptable levels, without a massive change in hardware. We’ll probably see someone use reprojection techniques in a year or so and claim they’ve done it. But true generated pixels straight to the head…

You don't have to do it in real time, per se. I imagine a world in which the renderer and the world generation are decoupled. For example, you could descriptively articulate what you wanted to achieve and have it generate a world, quietly do some structure from motion (or just generate the models and textures), and those those as assets in a game engine for the actual moment to moment rendering.

You'd have some "please wait in this lobby space while we generate the universe" moments, but those are easy to hide with clever design.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#336

Post by kevindamm »

delusional wrote: post #326
SequoiaHope wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t ask people to speak how you want, you simply only invite people who already have a history of speaking how you want. This phenomena is explained in detail I. Noam Chomsky’s work around mass media (eg NY Times doesn’t tell their editors what to do exactly, but only hire editors who already want to say what NY Times wants, or have a certain world view). The same can be applied to social media reviews. Invite…

Do you know where Noam makes that argument? I've been trying to figure out where I picked it up years ago. I'd like to revisit it to deepen my understanding. It's a pretty universal insight.

I think it was in "Manufacturing Consent" by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent#:~:text=...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12617.Manufacturing_Cons...

Though this is often associated with his and Herman's "Propaganda Model," Chomsky has also commented that the same appears in scholarly literature, despite the overt propaganda forces of ownership and advertisement being absent:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model#:~:text=Choms...

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#337

Post by nosignono »

zbrw wrote: post #124
seydor wrote: post #80

Would progress in these be faster if they created 3d meshes and animations instead of full frame videos?

I believe that the corpus of video data to train on with video far exceeds that of 3D data. It's also much cheaper to produce video data. So I'd expect that this is probably the quickest way forward from a current world state perspective. Additionally, video seems like a pretty forward output shape to me - 2D image with a time component. If we were talking 3D assets and animations I wouldn't even know where to start…

If the fidelity of the video is high enough, you could use SFM to build point clouds from the generated video frames and essentially do photogrammatry on the assets from a genie video.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#338

Post by throwmeaway222 »

dlivingston wrote: post #329
forrestthewoods wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is a clear glimpse into the future. Not for video games it isn’t.

Unless and until state can be stored outside of the model. I for one would love a video game where you're playing in a psychedelic, dream-like fugue.

It's kinda crazy though that a single game session would be burning enough natural gas to power 3 cities. Unless that's not true

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#339

Post by nosignono »

mclau157 wrote: post #67
ivape wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to replace video games.

Do people play video games to look at pretty scenery? No most people are testing skills in video games and this will not test skill for a while

> Do people play video games to look at pretty scenery?

Yes.

> No most people are testing skills in video games

That's not mutually exclusive with playing for scenery.

Games, like all art, have different communities that enjoy them for different reasons. Some people do not want their skills tested at all by a game. Some people want the maximum skill testing. Some want to experience novel fantasy places, some people want to experience real places. Some people want to tell complex weaving narratives, some people want to optimize logistics.

A game like Flower is absolutely a game about looking at pretty scenery and not one about testing skill.

Re: Genie 3: A new frontier for world models

#340

Post by echelon »

keithwhor wrote: post #325
echelon wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you could 100x the efficiency of game development. > It would blow up the game industry, but also spawn a million independent one or two person studios producing some really imaginative niche experiences that could be much, much more expansive (like a AAA title) than the typical indie-studio product. All video games become Minecraft / Roblox / VRChat. You don't need AAA studios. People can make and share their own…

You’ve just described what Roblox is already doing.

Roblox can't beat Google in AI. Roblox has network effects with users, but on an old school tech platform where users can't magic things into existence.

I've seen Roblox's creative tools, even their GenAI tools, but they're bolted on. It's the steam powered horse problem.

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