Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

digitalcourage.social

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 377 posts

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#331

Post by pestat0m »

i know it's included in the toot, but it feels like this thread should have the link to the act now site: https://chatcontrol.eu/

"The EU Commission proposes... ...Mass surveillance by means of fully automated real-time surveillance of messaging and chats and the end of privacy of digital correspondence... ...network blocking, screening of personal cloud storage including private photos, mandatory age verification resulting in the end of anonymous communication, appstore censorship and excluding minors from the digital world..."

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#332

Post by aleph_minus_one »

hellojesus wrote: post #249
zarzavat wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but the mainstream systems are not decentralized enough. We need better systems. We, the technological community, have failed the wider public by not creating decentralized alternatives that are as good as centralized ones. Chat Control shouldn't even be an issue, we should just be able to laugh it away. Is anyone concerned about Mastodon being banned? No right because it would be almost impossible to implement.…

Why wouldn't signal just move their company to some random other country? It's not like they make money from their users, and people can easily sideload the app.

It is suspected that Signal was originally financed by the CIA:

https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/analysis/signal-faci...

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#333

Post by wizzwizz4 »

somenameforme wrote: post #323
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how much money would it take for you to go scrub toilets If my needs were otherwise met, and there were clear instructions allowing me to do this in confidence that I wasn't inconveniencing any users of the toilet, I'd do it free. (Cleaning a toilet is less messy than changing a baby, and that's not hard either.) Given proper PPE, I'd do even more "disgusting" jobs, if they were jobs that needed doing: I draw my li…

Quite the strawman there. Not wanting to work [at times literally] shit jobs without excessive compensation, is not the same as everybody being idle. I can list thousands of things I'd rather do than clean public toilets, and I don't even do thousands of things! Though yes - I do think a huge chunk of the population would be generally idle, if possible, in terms of commercial productivity , and I see nothing wrong wi…

You not wanting to work "shit jobs" (without compensation you would consider excessive) doesn't mean that everybody doesn't want to work them (or even that everybody considers them to be "shit jobs").

I agree with your point about commercial productivity. I don't agree that it would crash the economy: it would crash GDP (by eliminating large classes of exploitative and abusive behaviour which currently prop GDP up), but we already know that GDP is a flawed metric. I don't see how this would interfere with food getting to our tables, buildings being built, or communal infrastructure being maintained, except that monied folk would be less able to demand that things be done "or else", so we might have to reorganise society somewhat (such as by providing better working conditions for "shit jobs").

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#334

Post by ijk »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #227
datameta wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The omission was likely in that the failure is in trying to make filing taxes simple.

It’s pretty dang simple today. If you’re a usual W-2 employee, anyone who can read and follow simple instructions can file without paying any preparer a dime. For those of us trying to collect all the weird tax situations: https://freetaxusa.com .

You mean that Americans used to be able to do that. Last year. For this coming year, it's over.

Article: https://www.theverge.com/news/717308/irs-direct-file-gone-bi... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44757262

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#335

Post by octo888 »

maldonad0 wrote: post #139
Havoc wrote: post #19

Entire world seems to be making a pivot to surveillance state :(

And there is no non-violent solution

Which is why you see eg UK making it illegal to demonstrate, want more backdoors in communication tech (so they can scan for wrongthink), going harder banning free speech etc

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#336

Post by renewiltord »

tailspin2019 wrote: post #306
renewiltord wrote: post #263

[flagged]

Your comment history seems peppered with similar low-effort comments about Europe. As a European, I have some strong opinions about the state of your country at the moment. Opinions shared by quite a large proportion of your own population actually. But I manage to refrain from regularly and flippantly insulting entire continents and maintain some self awareness that we all have our own problems. I’d strongly encoura…

Doesn't take much effort to point out the truth. And it won't matter that much. When you've inevitably created your next crisis I guess we'll just have to come save you again.

With freedom we will fix our issues. But you guys always cheer as you go through one way doors.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#337

Post by bigstrat2003 »

ijk wrote: post #334
rogerrogerr wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty dang simple today. If you’re a usual W-2 employee, anyone who can read and follow simple instructions can file without paying any preparer a dime. For those of us trying to collect all the weird tax situations: https://freetaxusa.com .

You mean that Americans used to be able to do that. Last year. For this coming year, it's over. Article: https://www.theverge.com/news/717308/irs-direct-file-gone-bi... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44757262

No, Americans can still do that. You can get the forms to file your taxes from many public places (e.g. the library), and filling out a 1040 is dead easy if you are just bringing in wages from your job. The instructions are very clear and will walk you through the whole process.

I agree that we should have a government-provided e-file option in the modern age, but it is not true to say that Americans have no way to file taxes for free.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#338

Post by Arainach »

thyristan wrote: post #305
Arainach wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't work in practice. Look at how Senate Republicans have weaponized the filibuster in the last 20 years. A 40% veto is conceptually similar to your repeal process and it results in gridlock and nothing getting done. It is harder to build than to destroy. If laws can be trivially repealed no one will be willing to commit to long term things. We're seeing that right now with the destruction of US soft power,…

There is a difference between long-term stability in foreign relations and long-term stability in citizens' freedom. The latter is supported by the absence of restrictions, i.e. the absence of laws and regulations. The only people wanting stability in restrictive laws are those profiting from their legally guaranteed niche, typically of the rent-seeking monopolist kind.

The absence of laws and regulations enables exploitation, not freedom. We've seen that over and over. Libertarianism gives us the "freedom" to have monopolies price gouging, locking the fire exits to ensure we don't leave before our 16 hour shift for pennies is over.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#339

Post by bigstrat2003 »

lupusreal wrote: post #172
miohtama wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to stop it is to have positive rights written in law, like right to online privacy and privacy of communications.

Article 35: Citizens of the People’s Republic of China shall enjoy freedom of speech, the press, assembly, association, procession and demonstration. https://english.www.gov.cn/archive/lawsregulations/201911/20... Constitutions are just paper. It doesn't matter how they're written if the guys with the guns don't care to respect it.

Yeah, when reading about the collapse of the Roman republic recently I was struck by how unimportant the law (about not crossing the Rubicon with an army) was. For a long time, the law wasn't meaningful because nobody would think of bringing an army into Rome, it just wasn't done! Then eventually Sulla said "fuck this, I'm bringing in an army to enforce my will", and the law didn't do a thing to constrain him (or anyone who came after him). It seems to me that it was the social norms of Roman society which kept people from using military force to get their way, and that the law served no purpose except perhaps a very visible way to reinforce the social norm.

Re: Many countries that said no to ChatControl in 2024 are now undecided

#340

Post by marcosdumay »

bondeau wrote: post #138
marcosdumay wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it really the internet that killed third places? Among all candidates, it seems the least likely here. It didn't even happen at the same speed the internet grew. (The issues with monopolized editorial powers are still valid, it's just this one that I think is wrong.)

Say more?

You mean what other candidates are there?

Overwork, lack of space, lack of transportation.

I imagine people blames the internet for lack of interest (as in "social networks are a dopamine machine"). But IMO it's absurd to jump into a lack of interest when the physical means for people to get together are destroyed.

Post reply on HN