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Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

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Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#331
post #7

This is true to an extent and I'm very fond of the saying, but beyond a certain point you can indeed outrun a bad diet. I used to spend ~4 hours a day training martial arts (kickboxing, BJJ, etc) during which time I could eat almost anything I wanted without gaining weight. I'm sure if I had downed a cheesecake a day it would've been bad for me, but I was able to get away with a level of excess back then that I am un…

The most effective exercise for weight loss is fork put-downs.

I see fork put-downs touted by random influencers and life coach type people on the internet, but this feels like one of those things that sounds profound but isn't based on any research other than someone's individual anecdotal experience.

I'm skeptical that this actually does anything.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. This is one reason bodybuilders (the closest thing to professional dieters) will only do low intensity cardio -- walking etc -- when cutting weight. High intensity cardio burns calories but increases appetite disproportionately. Albeit otherwise excellent for overall health.

I hate /fit/ and the bodybuilding forums so much. Stupid memes like this, SS, GOMAD, and related exist and continue to be parroted because of them. No, using a segway to move in between weight machines will not preserve your gains. The amount of mental gymnastics performed by these guys to justify hilariously stupid physical decisions is simply colossal. I applaud folks like Chloe Ting (a "cardio bunny" aesthetic you…

> The amount of mental gymnastics performed by these guys to justify hilariously stupid physical decisions is simply colossal.

This is a very ungenerous and incorrect take.

It is their prerogative to decide what outcome they want to maximize when it comes to their own body. I don't think any bodybuilder is under the delusion that they are particularly healthy when on the bodybuilding stage - they're not trying to be healthy, they're trying to win a specific competition with specific rules around it.

You might not like their goal or think it's stupid, but they are making the correct decisions for the outcomes they care about, and there's nothing wrong with caring about different things.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#333

Whenever the topic of weight loss comes up, I always make the same recommendation: Lift weights. Lifting weights increases your muscle mass. Muscle burns calories, even at rest, which raises your TDEE. (A bodybuilder will burn more calories sitting on the couch than someone who doesn't lift weights). For most folks (myself included) cardio sucks. You _could_ jog for an hour every day and burn x-hundred calories due t…

I used to believe this (as did many people) but no longer do. The amount of extra calories burned with a higher muscle mass is just not significant enough to make this a relevant idea.

Of course, there are many, many other reasons to lift weights. Health and longevity aside, the reason most people want to lose weight is to look better - so what they should really aim for isn't to lose weight, it's to lose fat and increase muscle mass. For that, you need both a caloric deficit and weight lifting.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#334

Having lost 40lbs in the past couple of years, diet and walking have been key. It's just so much easier to burn fat by not eating it, than it is to try to burn it off with exercise. You'll find that burning 500 calories on a treadmill feels like an eternity, but eating one chocolate chip muffin? You can do that and gulp down a big glass of milk in 5 minutes like it's nothing.

>You'll find that burning 500 calories on a treadmill feels like an eternity That's because you are doing it on a treadmill... Try doing a more fun activity outside in the world and in nature. Like cycling. I can cycle for 120 miles outdoors in about 6 hours in a single day and have a positive experience and memory of doing it and that burns about 8200 calories according to a calculators for my weight.

Unfortunately I think you'll find that many people just don't actually enjoy these sorts of activities. To me, cycling 120 miles (or even just 20 miles) is not something I'm interested in doing regularly.

I've tried various things, and I've found that I can get myself to go outside running (usually 3-5 miles in one session) a few times a week, but even that feels like a chore. I've been doing hot yoga (as well as a yoga-adjacent class that I think of more as "strength training and cardio with yoga features") for the past year and a half, which I actually somewhat enjoy. But it took me double-digit years to find exercise activities that I can actually get myself to do.

Go to the gym regularly? Really hard to find the motivation, though I do my best to go if I'm traveling in a place where I can't go to my (national chain) yoga studio. Cycling? Not my cup of tea. Playing a sport? Nope. Climbing? Tried it, didn't find it interesting. Hiking? Sure, on occasion, but not regularly enough to count as regular exercise. I'm just not really interested in any of those things enough to do them multiple times per week. And I think that's the case for many people.

If I could maintain my weight, leg muscle tone, and cardiovascular health without running, I'd never run ever again. I don't get that "runner's high" that people talk about (or if I do, it's not very intense, and fades very quickly). In addition to whole-body muscle tone, the yoga gives me some nice mental benefits, so I'd probably keep that up, but if it didn't, I'd drop it immediately.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#335
post #66

I cut out drinks with sugar in them, eating after dinner, and in general just eating healthy meals. I lift weights about 3 days a week, and am fairly fit strengthwise. All this lowered my fat levels down to a reasonable level, but still left me with about 23% body fat and a bit of a belly, and that remained consistent. Trying to diet didn't really cause any maintainable change. What I found has helped is doing a 24 h…

> What I found has helped is doing a 24 hour fast once a week.

Another protocol that is sustainable is 4:3, ie 4 days of normal eating and 3 of intermittent fasting.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#336

Whenever the topic of weight loss comes up, I always make the same recommendation: Lift weights. Lifting weights increases your muscle mass. Muscle burns calories, even at rest, which raises your TDEE. (A bodybuilder will burn more calories sitting on the couch than someone who doesn't lift weights). For most folks (myself included) cardio sucks. You _could_ jog for an hour every day and burn x-hundred calories due t…

This is true, but I don't think the extra calorie burn via extra muscle mass is dramatic enough to move the needle that much. Studies are a bit weak here, but a quick search suggests that a pound of muscle mass burns between 4.5 and 7 calories per day. That's... not that much. A bodybuilder that's putting on competition-worthy levels of muscle mass is going to be spending several hours every single day at the gym lifting weights, and very few people are going to sign up for that just for the hope of losing some weight.

I've been doing some strength training (arms, legs, core) for the past year and a half. Nothing too heavy, but enough that I can see nice muscle-tone changes in my body, and I notice that day-to-day physical tasks are easier. At most, I've put on about 10lbs of muscle (and honestly it's probably more like half that). So I'm burning another 45 to 70 calories per day. That's like... 4 to 7 plain potato chips of calories.

So lift if you want to look good, be generally stronger (core strength is especially good for you!), or just feel healthier. And sure, the act of lifting those weights will burn calories that you weren't otherwise burning. But the muscle mass you gain isn't going to burn a useful amount of extra calories per day.

And yes, cardio does suck! Unfortunately, doing only strength training is leaving out really important parts of your body that need to be strong and healthy: your heart and lungs. I'm in decent physical shape, but if I stop working on cardio even for a month or so, walking up the four flights of stairs in my condo building leaves me a little winded, and I don't like that feeling.

I guess my point is: do cardio and strength training to increase your general level of health and fitness. But if you want to lose weight, change your diet. Change it sustainably and permanently. If you just change it until you get to your target weight, you're going to put those pounds right back on afterward.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a fan of weightlifting, and agree that there are numerous health benefits to doing so, but I think the extra calorie burning is over-hyped. From what I've read you get 6-10 calories per pound of muscle per day, at rest. Not nothing, but for folks who aren't looking to body build I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. Or maybe over a long enough time span it does, I dunno.

Yeah it's not terrible, but having 10 extra pounds of muscle burning almost 100 calories a day extra, thats like a pound of fat every month and a bit.

That's assuming the extra calorie burn doesn't make you feel hungrier and cause you to eat more, even if only a little. 100 calories is a very small amount of extra food.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#338

Anecdotal evidence: I found that it's super easy to eat way more than you should by just having some food laying around. And I don't mean just Cheetos - "healthy" food will set you back rather quickly as well. The amount of exercise doesn't matter that much - with the calorie density of common snacks, you will out-eat your exercise really fast. I don't think I'm that bad in that sense, but until I started keeping a t…

Totally the case for me too. I used to keep lots of different snacks stocked at home. Eliminating that (except for a few things in small quantities) has been great for weight maintenance for me. At this point there are more treats for our cats in the house than snacks for me.

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#339

This reminds a little of Usain Bolt famously having chicken nuggets before his final at the Beijing Olympics. Although hardly indicative of a bad diet that he may or may not have had. I think as well there is some difficulty with variability between people that isn't clear or maybe doesn't matter at scale. The article linked study was across 43 nations with 4213 adults. Yet there may still be individuals who can argu…

The chicken nugget thing is to avoid food poisoning though, right? It's because McDonald's food logistics results in hyper-consistent food irrespective of where you're at in the world and the last thing an Olympic competitor wants is to risk getting food poisoning from eating foreign food. I don't think Usain eats chicken nuggets on the reg.

"Food poisoning" implies contaminated food, which is as unlikely in McDonald's food as it is in the Olympic village's food. This is more to avoid upsetting their stomachs with unfamiliar food (broadly similar effect but very different cause).

Re: Diet, not lack of exercise, drives obesity, a new study finds

#340

This reminds a little of Usain Bolt famously having chicken nuggets before his final at the Beijing Olympics. Although hardly indicative of a bad diet that he may or may not have had. I think as well there is some difficulty with variability between people that isn't clear or maybe doesn't matter at scale. The article linked study was across 43 nations with 4213 adults. Yet there may still be individuals who can argu…

> Yet there may still be individuals who can argue differently.

Of course! There are always outliers. But I think it is fair to say, as a general statement, that to lose or maintain weight, you have to focus on your diet, and exercise is not going to cut it. Sure, 1% of people might be able to "outrun their unhealthy diet", but that's not really useful information for the staggeringly vast majority of people out there. (Making up a percentage there; I think my point is still valid at 10%.)

1200 miles per year is a lot of running. That's 23 miles a week, or let's say ~6 miles, 4 days per week. Very few people are going to be able to -- or just flat out want to -- commit to that regimen.

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