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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#331

Post by jfengel »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #272
jonplackett wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm? I don’t think it’s ‘efficiency’ in the same way spaceX is run. Yeah they cut costs, but they got better quality results. With clothes / appliances etc we have reduced quality at our expense - while the companies doing it make more money than ever.

> Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm? If that were the explanation then you'd need another explanation for declining quality issues in communist countries. A test claim that some problem caused by "capitalism" should always backed up by a proof that the problem doesn't exist in the many other economic systems the world has tried. If only because this forces people to actually think about the economics instead o…

There really isn't anybody with state ownership of the means of production. It's hard to find anything to make a comparison to.

Communism would have its own reasons for declining quality: the lack of an individual profit motive. The hope would be that you would no longer be alienated from the products of your work, but that never came close to happening.

So if you were referring to China... they are the world's foremost capitalists right now. Their products get worse because that's what the market tells them.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#332

Post by inglor_cz »

nubinetwork wrote: post #254
inglor_cz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I rarely have problems with IKEA products, but I had quite many problems with bespoke wooden pieces of furniture.

I find it depends on what you buy... my couch and table are fine, my bed wobbles and squeaks a fair bit... /shrug

Well, you are right, my only IKEA bed was bad and I spent over USD 1500 (in CZK) for a solid hand made bed, which will likely outlast me.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#333

Post by chadcmulligan »

hermitcrab wrote: post #322

The lack of local purchasing is driving some of this. Whenever I buy t-shirts from Amazon, they are always very thin. You can't feel the quality via the web page, so why make it anything better than 'acceptable'?

Shirts are one of those things that are difficult to buy something of quality for some reason, even the same brands differ batch to batch.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#334

Post by brewdad »

nubinetwork wrote: post #254
inglor_cz wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I rarely have problems with IKEA products, but I had quite many problems with bespoke wooden pieces of furniture.

I find it depends on what you buy... my couch and table are fine, my bed wobbles and squeaks a fair bit... /shrug

I’ve found many beds ship with the minimum viable hardware to hold them together. You might see if you can find better screws/bolts/etc and replace the cheap ones that come with your frame.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#335

Post by gttalbot »

Quality has not gone up. Products are deliberately made to fail sooner by Chinese manufacturers who are reducing costs on super tiny margins.

The mantra that "consumers get lower prices and everything is better as a result" deliberately elides any discussion of quality and reliability.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#336

Post by jorams »

simianparrot wrote: post #149

Airplane tickets used to cost a lot more for economy class, even adjusted for inflation and fees. To get the equivalent service and quality today you simply have to pay more, you just have the choice of paying very little for very low quality because there’s more flights and more planes. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/even-with-fees-the-miracle-of... Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not say…

> I’m not saying that a high price label guarantees high quality

I think that hints at part of the real problem: humans have very little ability to judge the quality of products. Marketing departments are very good at cosplaying quality. "Awards" on things like wine only tell you the manufacturer paid the owner of the trademark some money. Reviews are often fake or at least paid for by the manufacturer.

With price also not being a meaningful quality signal you're left with a choice: Buy the expensive product hoping the quality reflects the price, or buy the cheap product knowing the quality is probably not great, but at least you didn't spend a lot of money on something that isn't worth it.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#337

Post by potato3732842 »

bsenftner wrote: post #243
trial3 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly! i came to this thread to smugly type “capitalism” in a comment. but i’d like to, less smugily, posit that it’s really just enshittification. MBA-driven physical-goods enshittification. It’s cheaper to use cheaper glues. To slightly change the fabric blend towards polyester. Thinner gauge wiring. There are tradeoffs towards more complex devices being made, sure, but that’s not exactly what “quality” is, to me…

I think the "MBA-driven physical-goods enshittification" is a simplification and a cop-out because this is not just MBA-driven. This is across the board in all of society, and I believe the reason being that people, in general and enmass, are not being taught how to live with active critical analysis, and as a result when they choose an enshittificating decision, they do not realize it. They are not connecting the ra…

You're getting downvoted because a huge chunk of HN spends their 9-5 making things worse with a fuggit attitude because that's what their KPIs incentivize.

Those MBAs didn't come out of nowhere. They answer to C suites who answer to boards. They have to weigh their decisions against the cost of customer attitudes and employee morale. The fact that we get the outcomes we do indicate this is a top to bottom societal problem.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#338

Post by hermitcrab »

My biggest worry is what AI is going to do to software development, I fear that we will soon be submerged in a sea of low(human)-effort, low quality software. As an Indie product developer, I plan to keep developing software the 'old fashioned' way, with a focus on quality.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#339

Post by thomassmith65 »

calrain wrote: post #308
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Everyone has their own way of measuring quality. Mine is that a Billy bookcase that I bought from Ikea 25 years ago is must stronger and more stable than a Billy bookcase I bought from Ikea 5 years ago. And, when looking at what Ikea is selling in 2025 as a Billy bookcase, it's worse yet again. But, with the cost of living increasing, companies have to cut corners to keep pricing down. I wonder where the inflection p…

It's ironic to use Ikea as an example.

When Ikea first expanded beyond Scandinavia, it was the 'fast fashion' of furniture: beautiful design, but sometimes made of particleboard or polyurethane foam.

There's nothing unusual about that today.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#340

Post by koliber »

inglor_cz wrote: post #224
JKCalhoun wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your point, but I suppose my wish then is that there were not low-quality (low-cost) everything in the world right now. I'm not unsympathetic regarding the poor, I grew up poor myself. And my single working mother raising two kids got by on hand-me-down furniture from her mother (probably, as you and the article suggest, of decent quality though). Having the option for (new) inexpensive everythi…

I think that if we fully incorporate all the environmental costs of production into the end prices of customer goods, we will become poorer, at least in the short run. In the long run, that could actually spur some development re cheap and safe energy etc.

Poorer in terms of $ accounting. Perhaps richer in terms of health, happiness, and the environment.

Given how much money people are spending on the latter things I think becoming $ poorer might be the cheapest way of getting healthier and happier.

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