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Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

worksonmymachine.substack.com

331–340 of 432 posts

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#331
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The spec, or prompts system, whatever you call it, is more like a recipe than code. It doesn't automatically generate the dishes; a good cook is still needed.

Yes and culinary schools exist and create new cooks in a reproducible way. Why can't coding with ai be taught?

Because LLMs arent calculators. Theyre non deterministic. Recipes and dishes are predictably reproducible, ai output isnt.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#332
post #311

To me it feels like I’m in the camp of people who has already figured it out. And I have now learned the hard way that it’s almost impossible to teach others (I organized several meetups on the topic). The ability seems like pure magic. I know that there are others who have it very easy now building even complex software with AI and delivering project after project to clients at record speed at no less of quality as…

> For me it’s just a huge force multiplier, maybe 10-20x of my ability to deliver with my own knowledge and skills on a web dev basis. I can tell you that this claim is where a lot of engineers are getting hung up. People keep saying that they are 10, 20 and sometimes even 100x more productive but it's this hyperbole that is harming that building style more than anything. If you anyone could get 10 to 20 years worth…

[deleted]

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#333
post #311

To me it feels like I’m in the camp of people who has already figured it out. And I have now learned the hard way that it’s almost impossible to teach others (I organized several meetups on the topic). The ability seems like pure magic. I know that there are others who have it very easy now building even complex software with AI and delivering project after project to clients at record speed at no less of quality as…

I feel like I’m in your camp, to my own surprise. I’ll try my hand at some guidelines: the prime directive would be “use the right ai tool for the right task”. Followed by “use a statically typed language”. Followed by “express yourself precisely in English. You need to be able to write like a good technical lead and a good product manager.” With those out of the way: Completions work when you’re doing lots of rote m…

> If novelty or complexity is high, use an advanced reasoning model as interactive documentation, a sparring partner, and then write the code by hand. Then ask the reasoning model to critique your code viciously. Have the reasoning model configured for this role beforehand.

Does this mean basically "Opus"? What goes into "Have the reasoning model configured for this role beforehand."?

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you also heard about calculators? Every single finance person uses a calculator. How effective do you think a person in any aspect of finance would be if they had never learned what multiplication is? Would they perform their job adequately if they don't know that `X * Y` is `X repeated Y times`? IOW, if you gave a finance person (accountant, asset manager, whatever) a non-deterministic calculator for multiplica…

> Have you also heard about calculators? Yup, my mom used to say "you need to be able to do it without a calculator, because in life you won't always have a calculator with you"... Well, guess what mom :) But on a serious note, what I'm trying to say (perhaps poorly worded) is that this is a typical thing older generations say about younger ones. They'll be lost without x and y. They won't be able to do x because the…

Junior engineers will be lost if they don't take the time to read the code generated by the LLM and really understand it. This is an objective truth. It has nothing to do with boomer takes.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#335
post #325

So far: - when I ask models to do defined that I know how to do and can tell them about that method but can't remember the details off off hand and then I check the answers things work. - when I attempt to specify things that I don't understand fully the model creates rubbish 7 out of 10 times, and those episodes are irretrievable. About 30% of the time I get a hint of what I should do and can make some progress.

Probably down to a combination of LLMs on average having a harder time with tasks that humans typically find difficult, and the task of prompting being easier the more you know about the problem.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you also heard about calculators? Every single finance person uses a calculator. How effective do you think a person in any aspect of finance would be if they had never learned what multiplication is? Would they perform their job adequately if they don't know that `X * Y` is `X repeated Y times`? IOW, if you gave a finance person (accountant, asset manager, whatever) a non-deterministic calculator for multiplica…

> Have you also heard about calculators? Yup, my mom used to say "you need to be able to do it without a calculator, because in life you won't always have a calculator with you"... Well, guess what mom :) But on a serious note, what I'm trying to say (perhaps poorly worded) is that this is a typical thing older generations say about younger ones. They'll be lost without x and y. They won't be able to do x because the…

You didn't even come close to addressing his points about non-deterministic outcomes? Aka the crux of the issue...

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#337
A bit part of this that people are not understanding is that a major part of the author's success is due to the fact that he clearly does not care at all how anything is implemented, mostly because he doesn't need to.

You get way farther when you have the AI drop in Tailwind templates or Shadcn for you and then just let it use those components. There is so much software outside that web domain though.

A lot of people just stop working on their AI projects because they don't realize how much work it's going to take to get the AI to do exactly what they want in the way that they want, and that it's basically going to be either you accept some sort of randomized variant of what you're thinking of, or you get a thing that doesn't work at all.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#338
> There's this moment in every new technology where everyone pretends they know what they're doing.

Perhaps that is true, but without any examples I was immediately suspicious of this line.

> Either way, we're in this delicious middle ground where nobody can pretend expertise because the whole thing keeps changing under our feet.

Upon reflection this does in fact remind me of the early days of rocketry when we were just reaching into the upper atmosphere and then orbit. Wild things were being tried because there was not yet any handrails. Exploding a huge tank of water in the ionosphere just because, launching giant mylar balloons into orbit to try and bounce radar signals off of them, etc.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#339
We are expecting a moment like when sublime was born. Sidebar map, concurrent cursors, blazing speed.

Right now its all monetization at gravity. As if companies are ready to pour software developer salaries in tools.

I imagine beginners will not have gpu rich environments and AI will not reach mainstream as traditional development did, unless something happens, idk what.

Right now, seniors love the complexity and entry barrier to it, so they can occupy the top of the food chain. History has proven that that does not last long.

In some scenarios as airtable, AI is replacing docs and customer support, eleminating the learning curve.

Re: Nobody knows how to build with AI yet

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the real reason agile is so much more effective than waterfall. The beginning of the project is when you know least about your project, so naturally you should be able to evolve the specification.

hmm right, in some ways could argue that AI based development is going against Agile development practices.

Maybe it is that LLM coding makes it easier to loop back with little regard for development cost. When you can spend an hour to fix what would have been hampered severely by technical debt late in the process - are we starting to omit optimizing for proper SDLC?
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