Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 394 posts

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#331

Post by p0w3n3d »

93po wrote: post #185
p0w3n3d wrote: post #166

First of all. We must not agree that all the market will be taken by one engine (i.e. Chromium) Sadly there's no incentive for this, of course we have Firefox (still, right?) but it may perish because of underfunding for example. We used to have opera, IE, those engines are lost. So what I think about the EU directive is that it basically allows one company (Google) take over the whole market. Because what we have to…

i think it's unlikely firefox would perish. there are endless open source forks of major browsers, including FF, and even of mozilla themselves fell apart over night, people would continue to maintain. FF's real threat, as open source software, is either: 1. further capture of mozilla and intentional degradation by google to the point of obscurity 2. organizational implosion followed by google deliberating requiring…

True true true

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#332

Post by robertoandred »

lozenge wrote: post #119
scarface_74 wrote: post #106

Two of the arguments just aren’t true. If you use another browser today even if it does use Apple’s engine, Apple’s not making search revenue from Google. The second point is that it came out in the Epic trial that 90% of App Store revenue comes from games and in app purchasing. Those apps are not going to the web. Third, if the only thing stopping great web apps is Apple, why aren’t their popular web apps for Androi…

Yes but there's no reason to use another browser today, because the browsers aren't able to add differentiating features. I don't think you are correct to assume games can't go to the web. Any feature they need from native APIs can be added to the web. Full screen, gyro, vibration, multi touch, payment APIs, notifications, WASM and GPU support are already on the web!

Web browsers aren't supposed to have differentiating features. There's a web standard that everyone's supposed to agree on and implement.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#333

Post by freedomben »

selckin wrote: post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

I don't disagree, but this is an "ends justifies the means" type of argument, which generally speaking I struggle with. I think sometimes the end does justify the means (within reason of course), but I try to be very cognizant when that is the position.

I do also think there are a lot of downsides to letting big tech companies exercise tight control over stuff, especially when it is anti-competitive. The slowing of Chrome is a good outcome, but there are plenty of other downsides that come along with allowing Apple (and others) to have these policies.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#334

Post by sealeck »

lillecarl wrote: post #120
sealeck wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is clear that Apple only moves exactly as far as the EU forces it to I don't think this is a secret - Apple publicly opposes these kinds of laws. > And within the limits the law allows, they're doing everything they can to make it tedious and difficult to actually get alternative apps stores or browser engines on their OS. Sure, it's unclear what the EU can do to oppose this though. If they push too far they ris…

The EU does not risk invoking the "wrath" of the "much more powerful" US government by telling Apple to stop abusing it's customers, market and developers. You have progressive states passing similar legislation as the EU within the US so I bet they'll be getting the firm hand first if anything.

The US government doesn't really take kindly to other states trying to reign in its companies. This is something that has bipartisan support. Even American politicians who support regulating Apple, only support _them_ doing this. Is this good? No. But it's also how Europe treats other countries. Basically: think about what France would do if Mozambique ejected or otherwise restrained Total -- that's roughly what Americans would do.

https://www.politico.eu/article/victory-eu-donald-trump-meta...

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#335

Post by freedomben »

idonotknowwhy wrote: post #80
rafaelmn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has an incentive to make everything work through the web. Safari has the incentive to gatekeep the app store revenue, which is why PWAs are a joke on iOS. Google also has bad incentives (Android, ads) but Safari is the IE6 of modern web.

Chrome is the IE6 of the modern Web. Devs are building hacky sites that only work in Chrome. It's the browser we're FORCED to have installed for the occasional shitty flight or hotel booking that doesn't work in Firefox.

It depends on what you are looking at. Chrome is the IE6 of the modern web as far as it is often the only browser people care about, but it's very much the opposite of IE6 regarding developing new features and moving web tech forward. In order to have a productive conversation about which browser is the new IE6, I think it's important to state what you are measuring

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#336

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

stahtops wrote: post #321
SpikedCola wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way, Apple is equally difficult about forcing the use of Apple Maps. If you receive an address in an iMessage, clicking/long-holding will always open in Apple Maps. There is no way to share to Google Maps (it doesn't appear in the list), and the default setting to use Google Maps doesn't affect iMessage. You have to copy the address, switch to Google Maps, paste it in, and search. I would much prefer clic…

I don’t want it to open google maps or ask me to open google maps. Stop trying to make things worse for everyone. Google maps and google.com shouldn’t prompt either. No prompts.

[dead]

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#337

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

kevincox wrote: post #284
troupo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than that. Apple will let users set a default maps app... only in the EU https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/03/14/dma-compliance-default-ma... The pettiness is off the charts

It's not pettiness, its just business. They want the lock in, they want the ad views they want the user data. Don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower.

[dead]

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#338

Post by mmmlinux »

pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

I get really annoyed when I open safari type something in the top bar to search the google search happens. then google has a pop up asking me if i want to be using google search app instead. to which the answers are Continue(highlighted in blue) or stay on web (almost grayed out). and if you forget and click on continue it takes you to the fucking app store. then if i go back to the browser and try to go back to the search that it definitely did. it takes me to the app store again. if i go back twice, i end up where i was before doing the search. fuck google and their dark patterns.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#339

Post by samat »

I've got a flashback from all the 'civil society/advocacy forums' I've attended. Big Co. send the representatives whose sole purpose is to make it look like they care. They do not.

Only state coercion — big fat fines (% of the total income) make any difference.

I think personal criminal liability would be a nice step to make corporations finally respect the law, but that's too much to ask from late stage capitalism.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#340

Post by graealex »

SpikedCola wrote: post #204
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

In the same way, Apple is equally difficult about forcing the use of Apple Maps. If you receive an address in an iMessage, clicking/long-holding will always open in Apple Maps. There is no way to share to Google Maps (it doesn't appear in the list), and the default setting to use Google Maps doesn't affect iMessage. You have to copy the address, switch to Google Maps, paste it in, and search. I would much prefer clic…

Look, it's Apple, Google and Microsoft being at their peak of customer hostility. Each of them constantly push their own browser in their own products.
Post reply on HN