Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#331

Post by Quarrelsome » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 10:48 PM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #330

Quarrelsome wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that law included a 6 month waiver to delay the move and every President from Bill Clinton onwards perpetually signed those wavers. Donald Trump allowed it to lapse, which is the point I'm making; he's an outlier.

it was literally law made us congress with a large majority. saying "trump did it", will be ignoring objective reality

The fact remains that Bill Clinton (2 terms), George W Bush (2 terms) and Barack Obama (2 terms) all utilised the waiver in the original legislation. Donald Trump in his first term didn't, which makes him an outlier.

My point is that one can suggest that as opposed to being supportive to Israel like former presidents that Donald Trump is friendly to Israel, giving them what they want without asking for anything tangible in exchange.

Please note that I will not continue to talk to you if you reply again without referencing the additional context I added. Talking past your conversational partner is rude.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#332

Post by MPSFounder » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 10:52 PM UTC

Quarrelsome wrote: post #329

MPSFounder wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. 1. Jimmy Carter mentioned in his biography that Obama asked him not to speak at the DNC because he acknowledged Palestinians deserved a right to live peacefully in one of his speeches. I revisited that speech, and it was by all accounts tame. He explicitly mentioned Obama's Jewish chief of Staff describing AIPAC as opposing this, and Carter was denied a speech at the DNC for this very reason (including hi…

That's worthwhile context, however I don't think it dents the point I'm trying to make. Many US presidents have been supportive of Israel, I'm just making the point that I interpret Donald Trump to be _friendly_ as opposed to simply supportive.

There is a difference between being friendly to Israel, and putting Israel's wellbeing above US interests. When American elected representatives state the American capitol can burn as long as Israel flourishes, do you believe these representatives have our best interest in their heart, or are they answering to rich donors (AIPAC) who could destroy them whenever they so choose? A subjugated slave may think highly of his master as Voltaire used to say, it does not alter the fact he is a slave with a master. There are those who wish to believe America gains from Israel (whether it is intel, or a satellite in that region of the world, etc), which justifies funding it. That is the greatest lie ever told. America is a slave to Israeli interests, nothing more. There could be a million USS Liberty and Rachel Corrie incidents, and it does not alter the hierarchy of the status quo: America serves Israel. We can put a spin on it to sleep warmly at night, but make no mistake of who is the master in this relationship, and who is the subjugated servant.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#333

Post by Quarrelsome » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 10:56 PM UTC

MPSFounder wrote: post #332

Quarrelsome wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's worthwhile context, however I don't think it dents the point I'm trying to make. Many US presidents have been supportive of Israel, I'm just making the point that I interpret Donald Trump to be _friendly_ as opposed to simply supportive.

There is a difference between being friendly to Israel, and putting Israel's wellbeing above US interests. When American elected representatives state the American capitol can burn as long as Israel flourishes, do you believe these representatives have our best interest in their heart, or are they answering to rich donors (AIPAC) who could destroy them whenever they so choose? A subjugated slave may think highly of h…

In the video you linked, I think she was being hyperbolic in order to stress the level of support that the US has for Israel. I don't think she meant it literally.

If the US's support for Israel ever hurt the USA in places that it genuinely cared about, then I think you'd see its support for Israel diminish or even dissipate. As it stands support for Israel is very convenient for the US industrial military complex and the USA's long-term strategic objectives in the Middle East which IMHO are large factors in its willingness to support it.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#334

Post by Atlas667 » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 10:58 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #252

krapp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "Epstein/Israel/Trump blackmail conspiracy?" It's already known that Trump is in the Epstein files. He's already admitted to sexual assault, has been found liable of sexual abuse and is a convicted felon. He's one of the most openly venal and corrupt Presidents in history. There's literally nothing Israel could have on him that would surprise anyone. Every American President will defend Israel at any cost. The A…

I wonder how much weight to put to the theory that Biden was letting Israel get away with genocide because Israel was also weakening Iran, and that was a way to weaken Russia and help Ukraine, sorry dear Gazans, your suffering and death is noted under the heading "collateral damage". In happier news, Netanyahu's rampage helped Syria oust Assad, although that farmer from that Zen story says "Let's see."...

I agree.

The point of the genocide in Gaza is to erase internal resistance. To erase internal cultural, ethnic and religious ties to their enemies. Eliminate "the enemy within". This is why they are ending a peoples. Straight colonial-racist-genocide of the retro variety.

And also, I do believe it is the whole key to the middle east:

It is a colonial war "playground".

Western Capitalist Block VS Eastern Capitalist Block fight using the people middle east. It is the current global center for proxy wars. Maybe its been working as a sort of vent preventing an all-out WW3.

These world leaders just use us poor people for the profits of their capitalist class.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#335

Post by tguvot » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 11:02 PM UTC

Quarrelsome wrote: post #331

tguvot wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it was literally law made us congress with a large majority. saying "trump did it", will be ignoring objective reality

The fact remains that Bill Clinton (2 terms), George W Bush (2 terms) and Barack Obama (2 terms) all utilised the waiver in the original legislation. Donald Trump in his first term didn't, which makes him an outlier. My point is that one can suggest that as opposed to being supportive to Israel like former presidents that Donald Trump is friendly to Israel, giving them what they want without asking for anything tangi…

You are also talking past facts.

>The Act recognized Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel and called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[2] and the House (374–37). The Act became law without a presidential signature on November 8, 1995.

Your context is deflecting that this is US law, adopted by more than supermajority in both houses and trying to dump it on trump. This law was essentially the will of american people; and presidents that you enumerated avoided implemented provisions of it.

also, waiver in question was not blanket, but 6 months long and based on "national security" grounds". i guess under trump there were no more national security grounds to get a waiver

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#336

Post by MPSFounder » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 11:04 PM UTC

Quarrelsome wrote: post #333

MPSFounder wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between being friendly to Israel, and putting Israel's wellbeing above US interests. When American elected representatives state the American capitol can burn as long as Israel flourishes, do you believe these representatives have our best interest in their heart, or are they answering to rich donors (AIPAC) who could destroy them whenever they so choose? A subjugated slave may think highly of h…

In the video you linked, I think she was being hyperbolic in order to stress the level of support that the US has for Israel. I don't think she meant it literally. If the US's support for Israel ever hurt the USA in places that it genuinely cared about, then I think you'd see its support for Israel diminish or even dissipate. As it stands support for Israel is very convenient for the US industrial military complex an…

I disagree. She was speaking to an Israeli lobby and was being truthful (her legislative work has been as pro Israel as they come). I think it is important for the rest of us to recognize that Jews are very attached to Israel, and while they may be fine Americans (and are a major part of our country), it is also important to recognize when decisions advocated by rich and powerful forces (such as recent arrests of college students exerting their first amendment rights) are alien to who we are and our values. If we are unable to object to actions that harm these United States, then we have failed to serve our country. I have read a lot of non-fiction relating to Carter and Nixon (autobiography and secondary sources), and they both highlight the pressure they faced to serve Israel, taking actions that were not favorable to the US at the time because of powerful lobbies. Ignoring this problem will continue to do America great harm, for it is American soldiers that serve in these wars (Israelis have bunkers we have funded through our taxes and free healthcare), American blood that gets spilled (Iran and Iraq are examples), and American values that are sacrificed (the maiming of children is not an American value, and I define American to be that view the founding fathers had, not the recent view that has been stained by these very lobby efforts).

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#337

Post by ImJamal » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 11:04 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #292

ImJamal wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum Israel considers their capital to be Jerusalem. Was there any other country where we just reject the city they consider their capital? Like would we tell Germany that we won't recognize Berlin as their capital and would instead tell them we are going to consider Hamburg their capital?

Jerusalem is partitioned in two, like Berlin was during the cold war. The US embassy for west Germany (and the capital of west Germany) were in Bonn. Moving the capital of west Germany to Berlin would have been seen as a very aggressive move.

You are missing a very clear difference. West Germany did not consider Berlin their capital.

So I'll ask my question again, have we ever denied the capital of a country is the city of their choice?

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#338

Post by ImJamal » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 11:05 PM UTC

Quarrelsome wrote: post #328

ImJamal wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the capital move from Tel Aviv to Jeruselum Israel considers their capital to be Jerusalem. Was there any other country where we just reject the city they consider their capital? Like would we tell Germany that we won't recognize Berlin as their capital and would instead tell them we are going to consider Hamburg their capital?

ignoring the fact the move of the capital is controversial move among the groups previous administrations wanted Israel to work with. The delay of the capital move was a tool held over Israel's head by previous US administrations that Donald Trump gave up, seemingly for nothing.

Have we ever done such a thing to any other country?

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#339

Post by lurk2 » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 11:10 PM UTC

spwa4 wrote: post #318

lurk2 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not seeing how this causes human rights abuses like you originally claimed. Your post has also left me with two more questions: > Any government is allowed to ask the ICC to not sue anyone for things either they did, or that happened on their soil. Sorry, any government EXCEPT the US and Israel are allowed to ask that. Isn’t this because they are non-members? > A relevant question would be "is the ICC allowed to…

> Isn’t this because they are non-members? No. For non-members it is assumed that they by default ask the ICC to not investigate any human rights crimes either involving their state, or on their soil. Which the ICC then has to respect ... Or that WAS the case until last year. In the middle of their existing court case against Israel it became clear that Israel requested ICC drop the case on their territory, and of co…

> The US and Israel, when they realized they didn't either, publicly withdrew so they'd remain honest.

This seems like an incredibly charitable reading of the US withdrawal given the ASMPA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

I’m curious, are you Israeli yourself?

> Oh it is an international treaty. So actually modifying the statutes would be a prolonged process involving all existing parties at the UN.

> However, the ICC also publishes statutes on their website, which they modify without considering the correct process.

> That, they can do. Nobody stops them.

I feel like you’re not telling me the whole story here. They can’t legally modify their statutes without consulting with the UN, but they can publish whatever statutes they want? What does this even mean?

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#340

Post by Quarrelsome » Sat, Jun 21, 2025, 11:21 PM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #335

Quarrelsome wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact remains that Bill Clinton (2 terms), George W Bush (2 terms) and Barack Obama (2 terms) all utilised the waiver in the original legislation. Donald Trump in his first term didn't, which makes him an outlier. My point is that one can suggest that as opposed to being supportive to Israel like former presidents that Donald Trump is friendly to Israel, giving them what they want without asking for anything tangi…

You are also talking past facts. >The Act recognized Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel and called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[2] and the House (374–37). The Act became law without a presidential signature on November 8, 1995. Your context is deflecting that this is US law, adopted by more than supermajority in both houses and trying to du…

and "I guess" that Donald Trump is an outlier when its comes to how US presidents treat Israel. That the Sentate passed the law is not entirely pertinent because I am talking about how US presidents treat Israel not US Presidents and the Sentate. I get your point that the senate passed the law in 1995 and its good context, however it doesn't do anything in showing how the sequence of US presidents since then have decided to hold it over Israel's head until Donald Trump's first team, he remains as a suspected outlier.

I remain perplexed about how that was given up for seemingly nothing, much like how Donald Trump curiously decided to betray the YPG for seemingly nothing too. You got any guesses on that one, given the YPG were the troops that did great work in defeating ISIL for us all? I feel like they didn't deserve that.