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I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

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Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#331

Post by TimPC »

sokoloff wrote: post #109
willis936 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if the price falls too much it becomes unprofitable to build and you don’t get new supply This is saying "building is expensive because building is expensive". Why is it expensive and how do we address it to make it cheaper?

There’s not a lot of confusion about how to build cheaper. Build less and worse per unit. Share foundations, roofs, walls, and common areas. Build less square footage per unit. Build less fancy per square foot (cheaper kitchens and baths). Use all standard materials and finishes. Install low-end appliances and HVAC. Everything cookie-cutter; no per-unit changes. Use less land per unit (and maybe less expensive land o…

Parts of this do align well with how to maximize profits. Shared walls, progressively smaller units over time and removing balconies have been the story of condo buildings over the last generation. The area that doesn’t line up is the low end apartment fixtures. It turns out people will pay $15k for $10k better of appliances and countertops.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#332

Post by [deleted] »

meheleventyone wrote: post #319
tim333 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the issue in the UK is getting permission to build anything. My dad had a 160 acre farm near london, you can get nordic type cabins for ~£50k ( https://www.quick-garden.co.uk/log-cabins/homes/ ) and you could stick loads there for little money but can you get permission? On no. I can understand not wanting to give windfall profits to folks like my dad who did nothing but the government could buy land and dev…

The cost goes beyond the mere material cost of the house itself but if you have a sizable new development how does it fit within the infrastructure where it would be built. Everything from providing services to having adequate road infrastructure. No doubt there is some wonky things in planning but it's also not a case of YOLO'ing up a bunch of cabins. Not to mention that small single homes aren't a very efficient us…

[deleted]

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#333

Post by [deleted] »

meheleventyone wrote: post #319
tim333 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the issue in the UK is getting permission to build anything. My dad had a 160 acre farm near london, you can get nordic type cabins for ~£50k ( https://www.quick-garden.co.uk/log-cabins/homes/ ) and you could stick loads there for little money but can you get permission? On no. I can understand not wanting to give windfall profits to folks like my dad who did nothing but the government could buy land and dev…

The cost goes beyond the mere material cost of the house itself but if you have a sizable new development how does it fit within the infrastructure where it would be built. Everything from providing services to having adequate road infrastructure. No doubt there is some wonky things in planning but it's also not a case of YOLO'ing up a bunch of cabins. Not to mention that small single homes aren't a very efficient us…

[deleted]

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#334

Post by vondur »

The homeless in the US that you see living in tents and underpasses etc. are the mentally ill, and the chronically drug addicted or a combination of both. Those people aren't going to be helped by building new housing. They need treatment and probably will need to be forced into assisted living accommodations. We definitely need to build more housing in most cities, but most of the governments in these areas make it difficult to do so. Once the baby boomers start dying off, we should see more housing hitting the market...

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#335

Post by ujkhsjkdhf234 »

bitlax wrote: post #183
ujkhsjkdhf234 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with poor or homeless people?

You don't understand. I'm a real person who's had real experiences. I am now disinclined to invest in housing for the homeless because you won't take my real problems seriously. If you actually don't understand the connection you should refrain from commenting.

You sound like the exact person this article is satirizing.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#336

Post by breakyerself »

edude03 wrote: post #137

I think anyone who has actually been hands on trying to improve the lives of the unhomed know that 1) it’s a gradient between “I get kicked out of x everyday and go back at night” and “I’m sleeping under a bridge” and 2) rarely is it the actual cost of the home that’s the problem. Often it’s mental health / substance abuse / lack of a support system. Heck I think there is enough movies/shows about how people fall thr…

It's mostly the cost of housing. The rate of homelessness goes up and down in direct relation to the cost of housing as a fraction of median income. What you also see is places with high rates of drug addiction and mental illness, but low rates of homelessness like West Virginia. Because housing costs are low there. Even a drug addict can scrape together enough to stay dry.

What you are seeing is that when the cost of housing goes up it's the people on the margins of society who are pushed onto the streets first and have the hardest time getting back into stable housing. That doesn't mean the cost of housing wasn't the driving force.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#337

Post by jvanderbot »

queenkjuul wrote: post #276
jvanderbot wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to equate this problem with just "the poor", and it's certainly not fair to equate "the poor" with homeless, mentally ill, drug abusers, or serial offenders. Those are the folks I'm referring to, not "the poor" as a general economic class. That should be obvious.

It's most certainly not fair to equate the homeless with "serial offenders". Most homeless people are simply poor. Most of the middle class are "drug abusers". But whatever you gotta tell yourself to excuse the mistreatment.

I believe you have never been to or around the situation I'm talking about. That's ok, but let me assure you it's a very very small minority of drug users and homeless. Nobody is proposing anything for those two large groups. Just a few very bad locations that get overlooked because of these kinds of misunderstandings which absolutely do need something different.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#338

Post by const_cast »

danaris wrote: post #248
foldr wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of humanizing homelessness fascinates me. It really does seem that the cultural default in the US is to view homeless people as subhumans who deserve to lead miserable lives. I’m not saying that this is what you yourself consciously believe(d), but it seems to be the implicit belief underlying much of the discourse around homelessness on HN and in the US more broadly. Normally when we talk about “humanizi…

The US has a very strong thread of Calvinist/Puritan/Protestant theology and thought running through its cultural foundations. One of the effects of this is a cultural predisposition to believe in something approximating the Just World theory—that is, that if someone is rich, it is because they are a better person (or blessed by God, or destined to be rich), while if they are poor it is because they are inferior peop…

This is correct. It goes deeper than this, too. Capitalist economies rely on a myth of meritocracy for labor.

The end result is that we’re forced to view the homeless as lesser. We typically throw around words like addict, because we have to. If we admit that there’s homeless people out there who got so based purely on bad luck, that destroys the promise of America.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#339

Post by jplrssn »

yesfitz wrote: post #322
nikanj wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1950s the UK was adding about 260k babies per year with a population of about 50 million, or about 0.52% per year Net migration (immigrants - emigrants) in 2024 was about 0.63%. I would hope the productivity advances in the last 75(!) years would allow the Uk to build enough homes for 0.63% growth, when our 1950s tools and technology allowed them to accommodate a 0.52% growth

Housing demand caused by births and immigration are different. A baby generally calls for an additional bedroom (easier away from the city), an adult migrant generally calls for their own residence near other migrants (easier in the city). In the past, the population was growing even while net migration was negative. This means people were having babies. This trend reversed in the '80s and migration has made up somew…

Unless you plan for children to never leave the parental home, wouldn't housing demand caused by births just be identical to that caused by immigration, only phase shifted 20 years or so?

Meanwhile the baby is essentially a net drain on productivity, whereas an immigrant is not.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#340

Post by anonym29 »

fragmede wrote: post #302
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, that's Eminent Domain and it usually doesn't happen without a fight.

So have the fight. People living in plastic tents in the middle cities is abhorrent.

There will be people living in plastic tents in inner cities regardless of whether the government does or does not infringe upon the basic right to private property. You're not proposing the solution to injustice you think you're posing, you're just proposing an argument for more injustice.
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