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Now might be the best time to learn software development

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Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#331

Post by sdellis »

I have been doing Object Oriented Programming for 25 years, but am now learning a new framework that uses a functional language. So, while I have lots of experience with code, I'm very new to this paradigm.

I thought that AI could help me learn it and have tried a variety of approaches. I have found that it is just absolute crap. It is worse than hype, it lies about what you are able to do. I spent a day with ChatGPT trying to figure out how to resize a browser window in a feature test until it finally told me after hours of confident explanation, that it is impossible to do at the moment. Um, that would have been great information to have 8 hours ago!

Not only does it lie to you, but AI slop is literally destroying the Internet. Please do not try to learn software development from AI. There are plenty of great ways to learn. Maybe your experience is or will be different, but I value my time and AI does nothing but waste mine.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#332

Post by triceratops »

redeeman wrote: post #330
triceratops wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody wants to inhale toxic fumes in some factory? well then the company had better invest in safety equipment, or work dont get done. We dont need a union for this We tried that in the past. The work still got done, and workers just died more often. If you want to live in that reality move to a developing country with poor labor protections.

how many software developers are in unions? is the compensation higher than industries/sectors with high union membership?

Actors. directors, writers, and professional athletes are in unions. How much do movie stars or first-pick quarterbacks make?

How many retail workers are in unions? Is the compensation higher than industries/sectors with high union membership?

The extent of unionization in a field is irrelevant to how much top performers make in that field. Unions establish a floor for employment conditions and compensation. Market demand determines the top end.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#333

Post by gsinclair »

dredmorbius wrote: post #37
glimshe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're joking but it's true. I'm sure you know that. SQL had similar claims... Declarative, say what you need and the computer will do for you. Also written in English.

I'd long ago (1990s-era) heard that the original intent was that office secretaries would write their own SQL queries. (I'd love for someone to substantiate or debunk this for me.)

I heard that from a lecturer too. It really stuck in the memory.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#334

Post by tmdh »

eddd-ddde wrote: post #315
AznHisoka wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not overconfident, it's the opposite - they're too much of a "Yes man", which at the slightest whim will change their mind to fit your opinion, if they even detect you might have a different one. Then they'll change their mind to their original answer when you tell them "I wasn't disagreeing with you". Honestly, it's amusing, but draining at the same time.

I've had a couple of times where Gemini straight up tells me "Absolutely not, ..." and the explains how my assumptions are wrong and eventually leads me to find the right answer. It's surprisingly good at reading my entire code, reading my assumptions of the code, and explaining what I'm getting wrong and how to fix it.

After Gemini gave an answer, i asked, "convert to latex". Then it asked, "To convert what to LaTeX?". Every other LLM would know what I wanted.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#335

Post by tmdh »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #241
tempodox wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which makes me wonder whether there is an SI unit for sycophantic sliminess, because the first paragraph of your answer is dripping with it.

The first paragraph seems like it's written by AI.

It's the "—".

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#336

Post by blindriver »

sokoloff wrote: post #307
blindriver wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the 10% difference between the best prompt engineer and a mediocre prompt engineer won't usually make a noticeable difference in output or productivity. There's no reason to specialize in it or pay extra because the gains are ephemeral.

That’s a wild take to me. I think that the spread of capability and effectiveness between the best and mediocre will continue to be several factors and might even increase as compared to today. I can’t see any way it would be less than 2x.

Conversely I think that 2x being the least amount of difference between mediocre and best prompts seems unbelievable. I've been using LLMs heavily just like everyone else, and I find that simple direct prompts get me most of what I need. I've never seen it get me less than half of what I expect at all.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#337

Post by sokoloff »

blindriver wrote: post #336
sokoloff wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a wild take to me. I think that the spread of capability and effectiveness between the best and mediocre will continue to be several factors and might even increase as compared to today. I can’t see any way it would be less than 2x.

Conversely I think that 2x being the least amount of difference between mediocre and best prompts seems unbelievable. I've been using LLMs heavily just like everyone else, and I find that simple direct prompts get me most of what I need. I've never seen it get me less than half of what I expect at all.

Think of Google searching circa 2010 (before they completely screwed it up for profit). The best Google search user was way more effective than a mediocre searcher, even on the much simpler task of searching.

I don’t think you’re giving yourself enough credit for understanding enough about system design to be able to effectively prompt and guide the LLM.

John Carmack* is going to be at least twice as good at making a game with LLM coding assistants as a mediocre prompt engineer will be. Guido van Rossum* and Rich Hickey* will be over 2x a mediocre prompt engineer at language creation. Linus Torvalds* will create the first version of git far faster than any mediocre prompt engineer (who will never complete that task). And on and on…

* replace with whomever you think is “best” in the field you’re comparing.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#338

Post by tom_m »

I agree. AI is an amazing tool to learn. The problem is, few want to. They think they can just hit the "easy button" and become the first "solo-unicorn." The hype train, doomers, and fantasy stories on all this is mind bending. Dangerous too. We'll see a catastrophic global security incident (or two) before it calms down. Yes, it is an absolutely good time to be learning.

Re: Now might be the best time to learn software development

#339

Post by sanderjd »

winnie_ua wrote: post #187
sanderjd wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But software developers often struggle to use sql Is this true? It doesn't seem true to me.

Oh, sweet summer child. Yes, there are so many so called developers in backend field of work who do not know how to do basic SQL. Anything bigger than s9imple WHERE clause. I wouldn't even talk about using indexes in database.

I've been doing this for over fifteen years. I haven't ever worked with anyone who is good at the job in general but can't figure out SQL.
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