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Cinematography of “Andor”

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Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#331

Post by twoodfin »

toyg wrote: post #265
twoodfin wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main (mild) criticism of the now-complete Andor->Rogue One arc is that it only put its toe into the waters of the Death Star. Giving that concept a thematic heft well beyond its Flash-Gordon-supervillain origins appeared “fully armed and operational” in the story, but in the end it barely rises to subtext.

But there is no conflict, no interest, in exploring a building site. What are you going to talk about, contractors installing pipes? How they get the best canteen food? It's actually better for the Death Star to be unseen, so that its full horror can only be imagined - and hence, becoming greater - in our minds.

I mean exploring why the Empire builds the Death Star in the first place.

There’s a version of Andor that does a bit more than hint that the Death Star is the ultimate (and ultimately doomed) metaphorical reply to Nemik’s manifesto.

In the final analysis, the Death Star is not about power. It’s not about control. It’s a choice, meant to be the last choice for the Rebellion: Submit, or lose everything you love, everything you were, are, will be, in an instant.

But, in the end, it’s this totalizing impulse that is the Empire’s critical weakness. There are always cracks in the edifice of tyranny. Other choices.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#332

Post by jimbokun »

sho_hn wrote: post #179
lucideer wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not part of the main storyline of Luke's journey as an individual & the Jedi order but it is a very big part of one of the main storylines of a ragtag bunch of rebels sticking it to the empire. A storyline which I'd argue was strongest in A New Hope & the initial trilogy & was weakened by the increased focus on individual storylines in the anakin & rey trilogies.

I'd say this is giving the Anakin trilogy an unfair shake: While I don't enjoy watching the prequels much for being clumsy films, you have to hand it to Lucas for trying to significantly expand his space opera by adding in galactical politics, etc. Any thrust to make Star Wars about ideology and governance (and specifically parliamentary democracy vs. facism) really came from the prequels, and arguably you couldn't h…

I don't think any of the politics from the prequel trilogy lands. It's too cartoony for that.

Whereas Senator Mothma's story arc had me engrossed from beginning to end. From the complexities of a Senator's social life, to her financial difficulties, to the medieval like politics of marrying off her daughter for the sake of a political and financial alliance, to her risking more and more, to her brave and powerful speech condemning the empire.

There is nothing in the prequels that hits nearly as hard. Because it's all dialog the audience isn't paying attention to because the Jedi stuff is more engaging, and because the political stakes never seem that great.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#333

Post by stevenwoo »

Related trivia (he mentions he worked on low budget shows prior to this), 650 million dollar budget for show's two seasons or 26-27 million per episode: https://www.indiewire.com/news/general-news/andor-tony-gilro...

For reference, Rings of Power, Jupiter's Legacy and Citadel (US version) cost about twice as much per episode on Amazon, and Game of Thrones on HBO started at five to six million per episode and went up to 15 million by the final season.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#334

Post by jimbokun »

peeters wrote: post #318
modeless wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by fan service you mean the scene where Darth Vader is at his most terrifying in the whole franchise, I think it was handled perfectly.

Not referring to that actually, I think that was actually a great bridge to Ep 4 that helps put the story in context for casual fans. More the presence of the Force and Jedi lore. They were so close to not having that be part of Rogue One but were still forced to include the mystical super beings in some way. Andor was able to fully detach from that baggage, focusing on the little people doing their part. And when th…

> it does make you wonder if he's just toying with Obi-Wan when he meets him like 3 days later...

I disagree.

If you set aside the difference in special effects capabilities, Vader is clearly being cautious in the light saber fight with Obi Wan on the Death Star. And we know that's because Obi Wan kicked his ass on Mustafar (THE KENOBI MINI SERIES NEVER HAPPENED I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT). And then Obi Wan never actually intends to fight Vader in earnest. He intends to become a force ghost all along. Still one step ahead of Anakin's understanding of the force.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#335

Post by jimbokun »

ghaff wrote: post #259
MangoToupe wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some stuff this is true with, but other stuff can age better. I loved MASH as a kid (huge props to the writers for pulling that off), but it's side-splitting as an adult.

Certainly one of the great series. I think a lot of 60s sitcoms probably age less well.

Just FYI, MASH was 70s into early 80s, not 60s.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#336

Post by jimbokun »

boppo1 wrote: post #64
apples_oranges wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are excluding the George Lucas movies from discussion right? In my opinion nothing ever came even close and I gave up on SW after the second Kylo Ren movie. Rouge one was cool though, also first episodes of Mandalorian.. Should I really try Andor after all the bad stuff Disney made? A few days ago I watched the new LILO and Stitch and that was great, so maybe good people still work at Disney …

It's barely star wars. It's a competent spy thriller with star wars paint. Turns out that makes for pretty good adult oriented star wars.

In a strange way, that makes it a better fit as a prequel for the original trilogy.

Compared to other Sci Fi movies at the time, Star Wars introduced a grungier, lived in universe where space ships got banged up and dirty, various species hung out in treacherous backwater saloons, and smugglers were just trying to make a living in the shadow of the Empire.

That's the reality Andor is set in, without the Jedi, and you really feels the difficulty of living in that reality without magic powers or a laser sword.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#337

Post by aidenn0 »

peeters wrote: post #142
nicoburns wrote: post #5

If you haven't watched Andor and you are at all open to sci-fi then I would urge you to consider giving a go. The writing, acting, and cinematography are all excellent, and IMO it is a very strong contender for the best TV show released in the last few years.

> you are at all open to sci-fi That is to say, a sci-fi setting . Andor would not be correctly put in the sci-fi genre, rather in the political thriller genre.

Sci-fi (and fantasy) are settings, not genres.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#338

Post by jimbokun »

layer8 wrote: post #134
guilamu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You guys are excluding the George Lucas movies from discussion right?" We are not. Andor is the best Star Wars ever made, full stop. IMHO, it surpasses, by far, anything Lucas ever did.

It’s a different beast. For me, there’s too many things in Andor that don’t fit conceptually, logically or tonally with the original trilogy. So if you like the world building the OT did and/or hinted at, Andor might not come through on that. Of course, the prequel trilogy (again quite a different beast) had similar issues.

For me it fits perfectly well if you're coming at it from the perspective of people in the same universe who've never seen a Jedi or the Emperor in their lives.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#339

Post by jimbokun »

emptysongglass wrote: post #76
guilamu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You guys are excluding the George Lucas movies from discussion right?" We are not. Andor is the best Star Wars ever made, full stop. IMHO, it surpasses, by far, anything Lucas ever did.

Yes, it's easy to view Lucas' films with a rose-tinted lens, but try and watch them now and you see: poor acting, poor writing, one-dimensional characters and plot points.

The acting is perfect for the campy story Lucas was trying to tell.

Re: Cinematography of “Andor”

#340

Post by photochemsyn »

crazygringo wrote: post #291
xorcist wrote: post #132

What I don't understand is how film crews can work together when they are larger than two pizza teams? And when they want to change something, it's almost like they just do it? Surely they have to file a ticket with the Product Owner first? And why don't they wait until the current sprint is done before doing things that clearly belongs to the next one? Why do the producer run around speaking in precise terms when he…

Perhaps you're confusing planning with execution. All the things you're describing -- in the spirit of tickets, sprints, etc. -- do happen. They're called pre-production. It takes years (months if you're lucky) to set up how everything will run on set. Producers have a huge list of actionables (tickets), and there is constant iteration (sprints) of parts of the script, of what the film's visual look will be, the tone…

Interesting insight, fits this:

> Kirill: How much time did you have in pre-production to talk about ideas, visuals and inspirations?

> Christophe: We had a lot of time, and it’s a rare thing. The director Ariel Kleiman and I went through the same process for each episode. We were reading the scripts together, and throwing ideas and brainstorming. We did that twice for each episode, and then we started making moodboards. After that we did another read through, and then we started blocking the scenes. We had a lot of 3D pre-viz with ILM, with our camera and lenses in those virtual sets. That allowed us to start looking for shots and to refine everything.

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