Java at 30: Interview with James Gosling

Post by bitwize » Sat, May 17, 2025, 1:00 PM UTC

astrange wrote: post #201

kllrnohj wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think C# is miles ahead of Java and in meaningful ways (like a drastically better implementation of generics, not to mention value types have existed for eons at this point and an FFI system that doesn't hate you for using it) But nobody seems to talk about or care about C# except for Unity. Microsoft really missed the boat on getting mindshare for it back in the day.

> But nobody seems to talk about or care about C# except for Unity. Microsoft really missed the boat on getting mindshare for it back in the day. There was this guy Miguel de Icaza. From when I followed the open source ecosystem at the time, it seemed to be his personal mission to promote independent clones of a bunch of Microsoft technologies like C# on his own time even though they didn't ask him to do it. I don't…

Post by bitwize » Sat, May 17, 2025, 1:08 PM UTC

the_overseer wrote: post #52

toprerules wrote: post #36

I admire Java as a success story, but I still have a deeply ingrained aversion to it for many reasons. I will admit that many of the reasons are due to Java's legacy as the language of bloated corporations, and its creation of overly verbose, magic fueled frameworks and poorly written code. Java as a language goes hand in hand with the idea that code is coal to be shoveled into the furnace, and we should all throw ou…

IT factor! Am I on a fashion website now? What kind of argument is that? Also, why on earth would you use strace or gdb for Java? It has enormously performant debugging tools in the JDK. Also, IDE debugging integration is second to none.

Post by breadwinner » Sat, May 17, 2025, 1:16 PM UTC

mrkeen wrote: post #317

breadwinner wrote: post #221

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> I'm not sure what you found in (checked) exceptions. I could copy/paste the entire article here... but it would be easier if you could take a gander: https://mckoder.medium.com/the-achilles-heel-of-c-why-its-ex... Summary: Crashy code: You have no compiler-enforced way to know what exceptions might be thrown from a method or library. More crashy code: If a method starts throwing a new exception, you might not reali…

> You have no compiler-enforced way to know what exceptions might be thrown from a method or library. Always assume exceptions will be thrown from a method or library.

Post by bitwize » Sat, May 17, 2025, 1:20 PM UTC

lycopodiopsida wrote: post #321

pjmlp wrote: post #319

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Apparently many people need the stories, given how much they boost Go about things that are prior art. Emacs could be an IDE, if it came with the whole Lisp Machine for the ride, sadly it is only a subset of the whole experience. VSCode has zero lines of Atom code into it, it started from Azure as Monaco project. Does neovim distribution handle graphical development plugins, without spawing external windows? Yeah, ri…

> Apparently many people need the stories, given how much they boost Go about things that are prior art. No one but you here cares about prior art. And not even you, most likely, otherwise you would write your in some kind of lisp which was first on most of the things. > Emacs could be an IDE, if it came with the whole Lisp Machine for the ride, sadly it is only a subset of the whole experience. Lisp is just an imple…

Post by kllrnohj » Sat, May 17, 2025, 1:52 PM UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #251

breadwinner wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One area where C# really messed up is exception handling. See https://mckoder.medium.com/the-achilles-heel-of-c-why-its-ex...

I don't know that I'd say "messed up", but I do wish C# had checked exceptions. I strongly believe that they are superior to non-checked exceptions, basically static type signatures but for error handling. It's a real pity that everything after Java seems to have abandoned the idea.