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Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

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Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#331

Post by sunderw »

daveatwork wrote: post #275
bumby wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for empathy, tolerance, and flexibility (to a reasonable degree). I also don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a professor to act on an assumption of illness when the person actually experiencing the symptoms does not hold that assumption. Your perspective makes it seem like the prof is privy to information about your health that you don’t have.

I'd go a step further.. The prof was expressing empathy for the students that made the effort to be on time. They made it. If you know you're late all the time, then make allowances. 8 hours not enough sleep, go to bed earlier. 1 hour not enough time to wake up, set your alarm to give you 2 hours. This isn't related to knowing you're sick, just knowing you're late often. It always makes me wonder when I hear "empathy…

It really shows that you know nothing about sleep-related disabilities. I know someone suffering from idiopathic hypersomnia[1]. You can't just "choose" to go to bed earlier to wake up earlier in the morning. Sometimes it might work, most of the time it doesn't.

You think it's the disabled person's responsibility to never put a burden on others when others' expectations puts an unreasonable amount of burdens.

And we're talking about this specific kind of disability, but as someone else said in a sibling comment, it could be anything. Imagine you really have to go to the bathroom for some reason (pregnancy, diarrhea, ...). That can happen to a lot of people. Should all of them be prevented from being accepted into class ?

That's why we speak about "empathy, tolerance, flexibility". Empathy towards the weaker few, not empathy towards the "normal" many.

[1]: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypersomnia/s...

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#332

Post by sunderw »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #306
gnfargbl wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a medical condition (autoimmune hypothyroid, extreme edition) which I wasn't aware of, but was suffering from severely, during my University years. Waking up was extremely difficult for me and as a result I was often late. At the time I couldn't understand why I seemingly had a problem that nobody else did, and presumed I just lacked self control. Nope, I just needed (a lot) of medication. Your Prof Ramsey wou…

It is baffling that you are claiming “can’t show up on time” is something professors need to work around as a reasonable accommodation. In cases where a student shows up 10+ minutes late to a course and disrupts the lecture, what percentage of the time do you estimate the reason for tardiness is a diagnosed or undiagnosed illness or hardship.

Then maybe the easy solution is to make sure anyone showing up late doesn't disrupt anything? That accommodates everyone, is flexible, and does not unfairly punish anyone.

_THAT_ is flexibility.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#333

Post by sunderw »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #215
gnfargbl wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a medical condition (autoimmune hypothyroid, extreme edition) which I wasn't aware of, but was suffering from severely, during my University years. Waking up was extremely difficult for me and as a result I was often late. At the time I couldn't understand why I seemingly had a problem that nobody else did, and presumed I just lacked self control. Nope, I just needed (a lot) of medication. Your Prof Ramsey wou…

As someone who is _often_ late, your inability to be there in time is not someone else's problem. Unfairly punished...gimme a break.

That's a common point of view, but when your disability is never someone else's problem, it becomes waaaaaay harder to manage. You should display more empathy to people that don't follow the norm.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#334

Post by zavec »

krick wrote: post #218
remram wrote: post #18

This is not "malicious compliance", this is more like "pedantic enforcement". "Malicious compliance" would be if the same team booked a 50min meeting then a 10min meeting in the same room.

I wouldn't even call it pedantic. I mean, they seem to be the only sane humans in the company. The most faulty is obviously Page, who made the decision that seemed nice and progressive, but was problematic because the subordinates cannot oppose stupid intrusions from above and ignore bad policies. 2nd faulty party is the author of the story, i.e. guys, who use the room when it isn't booked, i.e. after 50 minutes of t…

When I got to the bit about "I’d personally tell them that I wasn’t going to leave the room" that seemed crazy to me. I'm fully on the side of the 10 minute booking guys.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#335

Post by lolc »

globular-toast wrote: post #322
diggan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggestion: Have an agenda, have rules to religiously follow the agendas and help each other follow the agenda. Once completed, meeting over.

Even with an agenda, nobody wants to be the guy that interrupts people to get them back on topic.

I frequently ask people whether they can discuss the diversion later with whoever is interested. It's not just me but part of company culture.

In other contexts I'm notorious for keeping people on the agenda. It's generally appreciated.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#336

Post by immibis »

spookie wrote: post #184
thaumasiotes wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are strange annotations; it looks like at least one word is missing. They mean "with time" and "without time".

Tempore is in ablative case, and in english there isn't a good substitute. This means it isn't a static set time event, it has some leeway so to speak. German has the ablative case, so I think it works out for them.

Wikipedia specifically states:

> German does not have ablative case

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#337

Post by bambax »

> When 2:50 rolled around and your meeting was supposed to end, do you think people actually ended the meeting? Noooooo. Absolutely not!

Why the hell not? Do people like meetings? I would want to get out as soon as the time is up.

In high school when the bell rang everybody ran out of the door. Maybe meetings need a bell too.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#338

Post by KoftaBob »

layer8 wrote: post #109
gwd wrote: post #85

> When 2:50 rolled around and your meeting was supposed to end, do you think people actually ended the meeting? Noooooo. Absolutely not! At U of M, they solved this problem by having classes officially start 10 minutes after the time they were advertised as. That is, a class listed as being 10-11am was actually 10:10-11am; nobody showed up until 10:10. Sure, technically it's the same thing, but there's a pretty massi…

That’s called the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_quarter_(class_timing... . (It usually is 15 minutes.)

How very European.

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#339

Post by yard2010 »

ryandrake wrote: post #287
degamad wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The request is not to transfer the burden onto the 90%, but to design a system where the 10% are able to participate without impeding the 90%. For example, if students enter from the rear of the room, then delayed students can join without disrupting the on-time students. If we start the design process with the awareness that some students will be late, then we can design systems which support all students.

Here’s a process for that 10%: wake up 30 minutes earlier to create a buffer that allows for unexpected events like traffic and for expected events like “I just can’t seem to be on time, maybe I’m sick.”

This doesn't work, any other smart easy solution to heal this disease?

Re: Malicious compliance by booking an available meeting room

#340

Post by adastrapa »

Voklen wrote: post #283
gwd wrote: post #85

> When 2:50 rolled around and your meeting was supposed to end, do you think people actually ended the meeting? Noooooo. Absolutely not! At U of M, they solved this problem by having classes officially start 10 minutes after the time they were advertised as. That is, a class listed as being 10-11am was actually 10:10-11am; nobody showed up until 10:10. Sure, technically it's the same thing, but there's a pretty massi…

At St Andrews University we have the concept of an “Academic hour” where every class and lecture begins at 5 past and ends at 5 to the hour. So your 10:00-11:00 lecture is actually 10:05-10:55. I believe this is mainly to give people time to get between their classes across town and to standardise how much time one has to set up between lectures.

my alma mater!
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