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LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

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Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#331

Post by xandrius »

rmnwski wrote: post #50
xandrius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duolingo is to feel like you're learning not for actually learning. Great for telling people you are doing something, that's all. For me, the best has been to get a anki deck to get the most basic 1000 words, once finished, go find a tutor to speak 1h a week on Preply and then create a personal Anki deck with words you encounter. That has been the easiest way to improve for me. And this is for Japanese, one of the ha…

Did you learn the kanji for the first 1000 words? Looking into learning Japanese as well. I tried the Remembering the Kanji by Heisig but that felt rather abstract after a while.

Here is my general approach, I attempted to learn Japanese in many different ways and the one I outlined before allowed me to finally break into being conversational.

1. Go through hiraganas a few times (however you prefer, I would write a few down on paper and try to memorise them but now I'd probably just get an Anki deck for it)

2. Once you feel generally comfortable with that, move to words (100 or so) using hiraganas only (try not to get words converted from kanji to hiraganas but actually common words that are always written in hiragana - use ChatGPT to generate a deck for you)

3. Once you feel you arw comfortable, move to the most common 1000 kanjis. There are tons of decks but I really liked the G-Anki one. Go through it once.

4. At this step, you can read and speak much more than you imagine, time to practice it. Here you would move to writing, reading or speaking (depending on personal goals and preferences). I found a tutor which spoke in a way I could understand and that I felt I could relate to (and I wanted to learn a bit of Kansai dialect, so that also helped). I did that on Preply as it is easy to see people's introduction videos and trial a few if needed.

5. As you write, read or speak with natives, every time you use a word you didn't know but you think you should (be picky, add a phrase which seems simple but don't get but don't necessarily add some extremely technical jargon you'd never use ever, at least not for now).

6. Keep going. This is a marathon, not a sprint. This stage, if you did the Anki decks daily, you could reach it in 1-2 years, depending on your inclination, how much Japanese you were previously exposed to, etc.

I am now at my 5th year, still learning with anki decks, speaking to my tutor (who became a really good friend) and adding new words. I started reading some short stories fully in Japanese, and almost played through Pokemon Scarlet completely in Japanese. I still cannot follow animes without having to stop and read the text but that's not my goal for now.

Good luck and keep it up!

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#332

Post by doubleblind »

runarberg wrote: post #320
doubleblind wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have started learning japanese roughly 6 months ago, and I luckily stumbled upon this fantastic Anki deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/911122782 It focuses on teaching grammar and vocabulary through listening comprehension. The creator has put an immense amount of effort into it, to a point where I cannot believe its free. I highly recommend it.

If you are interested I created an open source web app for learning kanji with SRS using open dictionary data. https://shodoku.app/ I am a year into learning Japanese my self, and kind of wanted to learn vocab and kanji at the same time (and also see example sentences for the vocab which I can put into my anki deck). My method is when I start a new kanji I pick a few words that contain that kanji, bookmark them (and…

Thanks for sharing, I'll check it out. I am currently using Wanikani +Tsurukame to learn Kanji, from your description your approach sounds similar with more customization?

I just had a look at it, love that it also teaches the stroke order, this is something I have no tool for at the moment.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#333

Post by jcul »

hintymad wrote: post #280
sieve wrote: post #241

As someone who knows four languages[1] (picked every single one up during childhood) and is currently learning Sanskrit, I have to say that Krashen's input hypothesis and Orberg's Lingva Latina is probably the way to go if you are learning languages as an adult. The direct teaching method works but is time-consuming and generally used for languages that lead to an occupation, viz. English. The grammar translation met…

Duolinguo tries to follow the input hypothesis. For instance, it barely teaches any grammar but simply asks its users to translate sentences. Unfortunately that's very ineffective. Compared to reading or watching live conversations, the amount of input in unit time on Duolingo is too little. In the meantime the sentences lack sufficient context for Duolingo users to build up intuitive understanding of phrases. Take D…

Yeah I think Duolingo is a great vocabulary expanded. But it's not going to get you to a conversational level.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#334

Post by sieve »

marc_abonce wrote: post #319
sieve wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, people do not have the time to deeply research this topic. You want to learn French or Spanish for fun. Duolingo claims that it can help you. So you join, try for a few days and give up. This happened to me about ten years ago. I too had not bothered to understand pedagogy. It is only when I wanted to learn Sanskrit, and struggled with it, that I got pissed off at the lack of progress and began looking aroun…

> people do not have the time to deeply research this topic. [...] There are some people on YT who talk about this stuff [linguistics/pedagogy] That's true, but the opposite extreme can be even worse. In YouTube and Reddit I see so many people procrastinating in their quest for the perfect learning method instead of just sticking with any of the good enough methods they already have. I know because I've also kind of…

This is generally because of a lack of definite purpose. If you were serious about reading ancient Latin literature, you would use YT to try to figure out a reasonable way to achieve the purpose and then put the theory into practise instead of continuing to watch these people talk about the same things over and over. Imagine Vermeer, Moebius or Frazetta continuing to watch art tutorials on YT in their 30s and 40s instead of working on their craft.

For some people, it is because they are unsure of which method works for them. So they wander from one theory to the other.

The rest simply enjoy the meta aspect of the journey more than the journey itself.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#335

Post by frank20022 »

makingstuffs wrote: post #176
frank20022 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because duolingo is designed for addiction (that's how they make money), not actual learning (learning would mean you'd stop using the thing, no good for stakeholders). There is no sole app that makes you go from 0 to C2, but there are infinitely superior tools that actually make you learn , and not the self-complacent pretend-like-learning pastime that duo is. For a start, almost every other app succeeds at not trea…

I have to disagree in that you would stop using the app if you learn a language. Learning is a lifelong task and becoming proficient in a language does not mean you will stay proficient in a language. It takes constant refreshing in order to keep sharp. Is Duo the best thing on the planet? No, does it serve a purpose? Yes. The reality is that, if people see their skills improving as a result of using the app (gamific…

> Learning is a lifelong task and becoming proficient in a language does not mean you will stay proficient in a language

Agreed, but most people see it anyways as a journey from point A to point B, and then it's done. Also, most people just settles for good enough, not continuously improving.

> if people see their skills improving as a result of using the app then it doing its job.

Problem being that duo tricks you into believing you are learning when you indeed are not. I feel encouraged when I understand something for first time, not when the godam owl gives me a high five because I matched a word with a picture.

> Nothing can _make_ you learn other than your own willingness to do so

Well, I am really willing to be a world class piano concertist and astronaut. Doesn't mean I'll become one. Motivation + habits set the baseline, the mimimum needed, but they are not remotely enough. Success would be pretty darn easy then.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#336

Post by sieve »

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #325
sieve wrote: post #241

As someone who knows four languages[1] (picked every single one up during childhood) and is currently learning Sanskrit, I have to say that Krashen's input hypothesis and Orberg's Lingva Latina is probably the way to go if you are learning languages as an adult. The direct teaching method works but is time-consuming and generally used for languages that lead to an occupation, viz. English. The grammar translation met…

learning spanish currently and I disagree on the grammer part. I never made any progress with spanish until I found a program that started with drilling all the grammer rules. after that my learning took off

In my experience, knowledge of grammar gives you a false sense of knowledge of language. You might know what the form of the word is, but you may not grasp its meaning in context, or be able to use it in your own sentences.

Grammar is the analytical part of language. It is not the language itself.

Try reading Spanish texts for a few days without doing these drills and you will notice a massive increase in relative comprehension.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#337

Post by sieve »

mvieira38 wrote: post #311
sieve wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are much better today, I feel. If the publishers do not feel that there is a market, then the gap must be filled by enthusiasts. Some time for creating the content and $6/m on DO, and hundreds/thousands of people can benefit.

It's pretty hard to do it with as much quality as Orberg did. He deliberately wrote each chapter to use the most universal vocabulary and grammar possible, and built upon that foundation, so much so that pretty much any speaker familiar with the latin alphabet can just pick it up and read start to finish. It's not a coincidence that all of these books start with a chapter on family: "father" is notoriously consistent…

It is possible, but requires serious, dedicated effort like anything else. I am attempting this with Sanskrit because I have not found anything remotely resembling this that is easily accessible.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#338

Post by jcul »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #12

Going to plug Language Transfer again, an excellent free app that is a much better way to learn a language than the DuoLingo approach.

Yes! Language transfer is amazing imo. I found it here on hacker news and it's probably the most effective tool I have found for learning languages.

For Spanish, over the years, I have taken formal immersive classes, finished the Duolingo tree and the reverse tree, spent time in Spanish speaking countries etc. My level of Spanish was good but clunky and I made a lot of mistakes. After finishing about half of the course, I found I was making far fewer mistakes.

I love the etymology background he gives, I love linguistics so it keeps me interested, maybe not for everyone.

I completed the Paul noble learn Italian course, so that I could compare to language transfer. In my opinion language transfer was much better, I found Paul noble's a bit slow and less engaging, for me personally.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#339

Post by jcul »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #96
simonbarker87 wrote: post #12

Going to plug Language Transfer again, an excellent free app that is a much better way to learn a language than the DuoLingo approach.

So, it's basically somewhat of a podcast that's almost entirely in English? Dunno, I guess you could listen to it. But you also need rote practice to calcify what you learn. That's what Duolingo is good at. Everyone who has spent 5min learning Spanish knows what tener means. The hard part isn't knowing what it means, but rather practicing it so that you hear it, read it, and conjugate it on the fly. Reading a grammar…

It's not really a podcast.

It's closer to courses like pimsleur or Paul noble where a teacher and student are speaking and there is pause before the student answers in which you are supposed to answer.

The thing I love about LanguageTransfer is how he explains _why_ something works a certain way. I find it easier to remember some grammar when I know the background evolution. He also makes an effort to map between languages which is the biggest contrast to things like pimsleur, which try to be more immersive.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#340

Post by jcul »

bornfreddy wrote: post #26
simonbarker87 wrote: post #12

Going to plug Language Transfer again, an excellent free app that is a much better way to learn a language than the DuoLingo approach.

Thank you! Is there any advantage to using the app instead of just playing the audio files directly?

The app is really basic, in a good way. There are no ads or unnecessary permissions. It's just a basic media player that lets you download the audio files for offline playback and tracks whan you have already listened to.

I find I pretty convenient.

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