331–340 of 799 posts
Going hard with Rust ECS was not the appropriate choice here. Even a 1000x speed hit would be preferable if it gained speed of development. C# and Unity is a much smarter path for this particular game.
But, that’s not a knock on Rust. It’s just “Right tool for the job.”
Another failed game project in Rust. This is sad. I've been writing a metaverse client in Rust for almost five years now, which is too long.[1] Someone else set out to do something similar in C#/Unity and had something going in less than two years. This is discouraging. Ecosystem problems: The Rust 3D game dev user base is tiny. Nobody ever wrote an AAA title in Rust. Nobody has really pushed the performance issues.…
> These crates also get "refactored" every few months, with breaking API changes I am dealing with similar issues in npm now, as someone who is touching Node dev again. The number of deprecations drives me nuts. Seems like I’m on a treadmill of updating APIs just to have the same functionality as before.
It’s not always possible to be so minimal, but I view every dependency as lugging around a huge lurking liability, so the benefit it brings had better far outweigh that big liability.
So far, I’ve only had one painful dependency upgrade in 5 years, and that was Tailwind 3-4. It wasn’t too painful, but it was painful enough to make me glad it’s not a regular occurrence.
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> These crates also get "refactored" every few months, with breaking API changes I am dealing with similar issues in npm now, as someone who is touching Node dev again. The number of deprecations drives me nuts. Seems like I’m on a treadmill of updating APIs just to have the same functionality as before.
I wish for ecosystems that would let maintainers ship deprecations with auto-fixing lint rules.
eg: https://docs.openrewrite.org/recipes/java/migrate/joda/jodat...
I occasionally notice libraries or frameworks including OpenRewrite rules in their releases. I've never tried it, though!
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But Unity game objects are the same way: you allocate them when they spawn into the scene, and you deallocate them when they despawn. Accessing them after you destroyed them throws an exception. This is exactly the same as entity IDs! The GC doesn't buy you much, other than memory safety, which you can get in other ways (e.g. generational indices, like Bevy does).
But in rust you have to fight the borrow checker a lot, and sometimes concede, with complex referential stuff. I say this as someone who writes a good bit of rust and enjoys doing so.
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The problem with Rust is that almost everything is still at an alpha stage. The vast majority of crates are at version 0.x and are eventually abandoned, replaced, or subject to constant breaking changes While the language itself is great and stable, the ecosystem is not, and reverting to more conservative options is often the most reasonable choice, especially for long-term projects.
I really don’t think Rust is a good match for game dev. Both because of the borrow checker which requires a lot of handles instead of pointers and because compile times are just not great. But outside of games the situation looks very different. “Almost everything” is just not at all accurate. There are tons of very stable and productive ecosystems in Rust.
I completely disagree, having been doing game dev in Rust for well over a year at this point. I've been extremely productive in Bevy, because of the ECS. And Unity compile times are pretty much just as bad (it's true, if you actually measure how long that dreaded "Reloading Domain" screen takes).
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As I said, I use Gentoo already ;-).
Quite. I was a Gentoo user (daily driver) for around 15 years but the endless compilation cycles finally got to me. It is such a shame because as I started to depart, Gentoo really got its arse in gear with things like user patching etc and no doubt is even better. It has literally (lol) just occurred to me that some sort of dual partition thing could sort out my main issue with Gentoo. @system could have two partiti…
Rust is not good for video game gameplay logic. The ownership model of Rust can not represent the vast majority of allocations. I love Rust. It’s not for shipping video games. No Tiny Glade doesn’t count. Edit: don’t know why you’re downvoting. I love Rust. I use it at my job and look for ways to use it more. I’ve also shipped a lot of games. And if you look at Steam there are simply zero Rust made games in the top 2…
> And if you look at Steam there are simply zero Rust made games in the top 2000. Zero. None nada zilch.
Well, sure, if you arbitrarily exclude the popular game written in Rust, then of course there are no popular games written in Rust :)
> And maybe not Switch although I’m less certain.
I have talked to Nintendo SDK engineers about this and been told Rust is fine. It's not an official part of their toolchain, but if you can make Rust work they don't care.
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One of the challenges I never quite got over completely, was that I was always fighting rust fundamentals, which tells me I never fully assimilated into thinking like a rustacean. This was more of a me-problem, but I was constantly having to change my strategy to avoid fighting the borrow-checker, manage references, etc. In any case, it was a productivity sink.
I bet, and that's particularly difficult when so much of modern game dev is just repeating extremely well-worn patterns— moving entities around and providing for scripted and emergent interactions between those entities and the player(s). That's not to say that games aren't a very cool space to be in, but the challenges have moved beyond the code. Particularly in the indie space, for 10+ years it's been all about sto…
Related: just tried to switch to Rust when starting a new project. The main motivation was the combination of fearless concurrency and exhaustive error handling - things that were very painful in the more mature endeavor. Gave up after 3 days for 3 reasons: 1. Refactoring and IDE tooling in general are still lightyears away from JetBrains tooling and a few astronomical units away from Visual Studio. Extract function…
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I agree with you except for the JVM bit - but everyone's application varies
My point is that there are situations where C++ (or Rust) is required because the JVM wouldn't work, but those are niche. In my experience, most people who don't want a JVM language "because it is slow" tend to take this as a principle, and when you ask why their first answer is "because it's interpreted". I would say they are stuck in the 90s, but probably they just don't know and repeat something they have heard. S…
It also struggles with numeric work involving large matrices, because there isn't good support for that built into the language or standard library, and there isn't a well-developed library like NumPy to reach for.