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U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

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Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#331

Post by dns_snek »

nailer wrote: post #329
dns_snek wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps, do you naively expect them to publicly admit that in plain language or how do you think that would look? Even the Nazis didn't have the political capital to plainly admit to their own atrocities. They tried to keep it secret for as long as they could, then they denied the camps' existence, denied the abuse in those camps, denied the genocide, falsified me…

> Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps Godwin’s law.

> In 2023, Godwin published an opinion in The Washington Post stating "Yes, it's okay to compare Trump to Hitler. Don't let me stop you." In the article, Godwin says "But when people draw parallels between Donald Trump’s 2024 candidacy and Hitler’s progression from fringe figure to Great Dictator, we aren’t joking. Those of us who hope to preserve our democratic institutions need to underscore the resemblance before we enter the twilight of American democracy."

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#332

Post by ModernMech »

nailer wrote: post #319
ModernMech wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your position seems to be No my position is that you've created a tautology, and so the phrase "profoundly autistic" doesn't mean anything. You're profoundly autistic if you can't function, and if you can't function you're profoundly autistic. So what? How does one measure "functional ability" -- functioning how and where and when? In a capitalist context? Academic context? social context? Where is the line? What's…

> You're profoundly autistic if you can't function, and if you can't function you're profoundly autistic That is a definition, not a tautology. Though I suspect the way this conversation will go is that we will argue over the definition of definition. I’ll bow out, but I do share your concerns about people looking to be right about vaccines. I feel they may be right (and also that they may be wrong), but as I’ve ment…

> That is a definition, not a tautology... we will argue over the definition of definition.

We shall.

Given your circular definition of profound autism, what I had said is a tautology. And that's my point, the way you've defined this thing doesn't make logical sense.

A shame to bow out on a semantic quibble, I made a number of substantive points I'll that I guess will have to remain unanswered. At the end of the day this definition is circular and is of no use to anyone.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#333

Post by computerthings »

nailer wrote: post #329
dns_snek wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps, do you naively expect them to publicly admit that in plain language or how do you think that would look? Even the Nazis didn't have the political capital to plainly admit to their own atrocities. They tried to keep it secret for as long as they could, then they denied the camps' existence, denied the abuse in those camps, denied the genocide, falsified me…

> Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps Godwin’s law.

[dead]

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#334

Post by mindslight »

nailer wrote: post #314
mindslight wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Online autism conspiracy theory channels turn this into some kind of eugenics purge. No, people in leadership positions have a duty to lead - justifying themselves and attempting to get buy in from everyone . Especially so on sensitive topics that we're societally squeamish about due to some very real historic horrors. I know the memetic field is a bit hazy from the sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth…

> sensationalist media pushing divisive whole-cloth nonsense like Joe Biden is going to make you eat bugs This is exactly the same thing. In the full speech RFK makes it clear who he is and is not talking about, I’m torn on whether our leaders need to rewrite their speeches for sound bites.

Maybe? I haven't listened to his speech directly, because I'm burnt out from having to dissect the sheer volume of dog whistles this movement relies upon.

Maybe that's a civically irresponsible take, but it is extremely civically irresponsible for Trump to cause this fatigue by sowing division to create a segment of fervent support. We've had too many years of "4d chess" with everyone trying to read good intentions and coherent reasoning out of the word salad. At this point most reasonable people are only trying to read the tea leaves to know how they might have to protect themselves.

And sure, RFK is not Trump. Except it's clear Trump has no concept of delegation or keeping his hands off of something. Even if RFK has the purest of motivations, it's very easy to see Trump seeing a few edgelord social media comments saying we need to send $whomever to the camps as well, noticing that the topic "drives engagement", and running away with the idea. At this point it's just generally bad to be in the crosshairs of state legibility in any way.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#335

Post by ModernMech »

nailer wrote: post #329
dns_snek wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps, do you naively expect them to publicly admit that in plain language or how do you think that would look? Even the Nazis didn't have the political capital to plainly admit to their own atrocities. They tried to keep it secret for as long as they could, then they denied the camps' existence, denied the abuse in those camps, denied the genocide, falsified me…

> Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps Godwin’s law.

Normally I agree but Godwin's law is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute.

Regardless, Godwin's Law is a thought terminating cliche, which is shielding us from the truth. The person you responded to wasn't calling them Nazis (although I am), they were asking you to engage in a hypothetical to try to make sense of a problematic issue: for 70 years since the Holocaust we have heard the slogan "never again", as a cry to the future to prevent such an atrocity from ever happening again.

The question to all those who hear that cry is: how? How do you prevent a holocaust from happening again?

The problem the parent is pointing out is that the perpetrators of a holocaust don't say that is their intent. They will say they are "punishing criminals", "deporting illegals", "purging drug dealers", "cleaning up the streets", "bringing order", "causing peace", "uniting the nation", "restoring glory" etc.

Therefore in order to prevent a holocaust, one has to necessarily stand in the way of people who claim to be doing good. No one doing a holocaust claims to be doing evil.

If you wait for undeniable proof of a holocaust before you act to stop it, you will fail. That kind of proof only comes after the fog of war has cleared.

Therefore if you really want to prevent a holocaust, you have to do so before they consolidate power, before they operationalize their intent, at the stage when they still have plausible deniability, and when they can make their plans seem reasonable. You prevent them from laying the groundwork for the holocaust, despite all the deniers.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#336

Post by ModernMech »

nailer wrote: post #328
ModernMech wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're the one watching edited clips if you're not seeing instances of innocent immigrants being mistreated.

Are you thinking about the guy the politicians are meeting with, that jumped the border and has two separate domestic violence cases? Agreed that somebody isn’t seeing the full picture here.

No, I'm thinking specifically about the student that was abducted off the street and terrorized. But you bring up another good example of immigrant cruelty. I'm aware of the context you mention, but that doesn't change the fact that with what they're doing, they are highlighting and putting on full display the level of cruelty they are willing to engage in as they wield power.

It's only a matter of time before that level of depravity is directed at American citizens on American soil.

Also I thought you were going to bow out of this discussion?

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#337

Post by nailer »

ModernMech wrote: post #332
nailer wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're profoundly autistic if you can't function, and if you can't function you're profoundly autistic That is a definition, not a tautology. Though I suspect the way this conversation will go is that we will argue over the definition of definition. I’ll bow out, but I do share your concerns about people looking to be right about vaccines. I feel they may be right (and also that they may be wrong), but as I’ve ment…

> That is a definition, not a tautology... we will argue over the definition of definition. We shall. Given your circular definition of profound autism, what I had said is a tautology. And that's my point, the way you've defined this thing doesn't make logical sense. A shame to bow out on a semantic quibble, I made a number of substantive points I'll that I guess will have to remain unanswered. At the end of the day…

> Given your circular definition of profound autism

No. It's not circular. Matching a name to a value and then saying that value has that name isn't a tautology. We're on a forum for programmers, if you work in this industry you do it all the time. I'd hoped by discussing shared values we'd end civilly but I guess not.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#338

Post by nailer »

ModernMech wrote: post #336
nailer wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you thinking about the guy the politicians are meeting with, that jumped the border and has two separate domestic violence cases? Agreed that somebody isn’t seeing the full picture here.

No, I'm thinking specifically about the student that was abducted off the street and terrorized. But you bring up another good example of immigrant cruelty. I'm aware of the context you mention, but that doesn't change the fact that with what they're doing, they are highlighting and putting on full display the level of cruelty they are willing to engage in as they wield power. It's only a matter of time before that l…

> that was abducted off the street and terrorized

I bet that didn't happen. Someone on a visa probably waved a Hamas flag or told people how they can support Hamas and then had their visa appropriately yanked. I have no idea, I just know BS when I read it.

Edit: oh you're the same person from the other thread. Figures.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#339

Post by nailer »

ModernMech wrote: post #335
nailer wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's assume they were planning to create concentration camps Godwin’s law.

Normally I agree but Godwin's law is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. Regardless, Godwin's Law is a thought terminating cliche, which is shielding us from the truth. The person you responded to wasn't calling them Nazis (although I am), they were asking you to engage in a hypothetical to try to make sense of a problematic issue: for 70 years since the Holocaust we have heard the slogan "never…

> is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute.

But they didn't. You know that. Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi. I bet you don't.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#340

Post by [deleted] »

nailer wrote: post #339
ModernMech wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally I agree but Godwin's law is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. Regardless, Godwin's Law is a thought terminating cliche, which is shielding us from the truth. The person you responded to wasn't calling them Nazis (although I am), they were asking you to engage in a hypothetical to try to make sense of a problematic issue: for 70 years since the Holocaust we have heard the slogan "never…

> is officially suspended the moment they threw a Nazi salute. But they didn't. You know that. Unless you think Tim Waltz, AOC and everyone else who did that is a Nazi. I bet you don't.

[deleted]
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