Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#331

Post by ajmurmann » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:03 PM UTC

bootsmann wrote: post #317

ajmurmann wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preference is subjective. I hate touch screens in cars that so anything but provide a screen for my phone, others love them. Should we ban touch screen controls because of my preference? I like to have a curated app store for my phone and not have a free-for-all with multiple stores of varying quality where I need to set up a new store just to use a popular app. So I can buy an iphone and people who have a different…

Your cars touchscreen is not a marketplace. The M in DMA is for markets, which is what the regulation targets. Now if your car manufacturer sold the car and someone else sold the touchscreen then you could talk about this but as it stands its a false equivalence. Apple has a market within iOS over which it can arbitrarily enforce anti-competitive rules, the EU regulates this type of behaviour.

Yes, my point is that this regulation shouldn't exist in the first place. Don't like the iPhone, don't buy the iPhone!

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#332

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:08 PM UTC

Sloowms wrote: post #311

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that you're probably in a bubble. Marketplace was incredibly popular back in the days when I was at FB, and I'd have expected it to get more popular based on the people I see around me (kids stuff is all over it). Maybe the gatekeeper thing is a reflection of less people in the EU using FB at all, rather than specifically Marketplace.

That bubble is the EU, which this law is about. I know a bunch of European countries have their own Ebay/Craigslist websites. Marketplace has never been even somewhat popular in my country.

Yeah fair. I guess I forget that Ireland is now the largest English speaking country in the EU, so I guess I'm in a bubble. I am still really surprised that Marketplace is no longer big enough to count as a gatekeeper.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#333

Post by madeofpalk » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:09 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #258

blitzar wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cmon, they’re squeezing the lemon a bit too hard They got hooked on the lemon juice. Nobody at Apple making millions a year to write emails and sit in meetings wants to be out on the street for putting up their hand and saying "hey lets just take 10% and have a healthy ecosystem long term, which will let us continue to sell phones to people every year with a profit margin of $500".

Phil Schiller has actually made some comments about being less greedy, like possibly ratcheting down the 30% cut once the App Store started making serious revenue or not shaking down developers if they use external payment methods. Not that Schiller has actually made any changes at Apple to do any of the less greedy things. https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/4/22418828/apple-app-store-c... https://www.macrumors.com/2025…

That was a long time ago. Now,

> “You download the app and it doesn’t work, that’s not what we want on the store,” says Schiller. This, he says, is why Apple requires in-app purchases to offer the same purchasing functionality as they would have elsewhere.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/18/interview-apples-schiller-...

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#334

Post by freedomben » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

Yeul wrote: post #161

madeofpalk wrote: post #11

> Under the DMA, app developers distributing their apps via Apple's App Store should be able to inform customers, free of charge, of alternative offers outside the App Store, steer them to those offers and allow them to make purchases. To me, this is the most easily agreeable part of what the EU has been after. It is unfair that Apple restricts Netflix from telling it's users that they can sign up and pay for Netlifx…

Aren't Americans always going on about free speech?

As an American who thinks free speech is one of the most important rights we have, I wish the answer to your question would be a collective "yes" but unfortunately it is not.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#335

Post by intrasight » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

fp64 wrote: post #204

tossandthrow wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big German newspapers do not need to comply under DMA. The EU focusses, rightfully, on EU macro dynamics with these laws, not how smaller outlets work. This is very much reasonable. When a platform is big, it has bigger impact, but also bigger budgets to hire legal help and bigger budgets to stay compliant. This is well established in accounting where there exists different rules depending on size (in many jurisdicti…

What’s another example of different rules depending on size? “Content Moderation” I think? Anything outside the DMA? I think small companies get some exceptions for documentation requirements?

You could try to find some analogies but you probably won't succeed since this is clearly just targeting American big Tech

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#336

Post by fidotron » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:17 PM UTC

alxlaz wrote: post #306

fidotron wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the Amazon website? No. Why not? A major detail you are ignoring here is Apple are the merchant of sale for everything via the App Store (Google at least were not for the Play Store at launch, I do not know if this has changed) so your comparisons do not make sense. The native app universe on iOS is closest to being an Apple run Costco. I would be very surprised if a fulfilled by Amazon order for a third party…

It's not my comparison. It's yours, and just as meaningless as your previous one about McDonald's. This one's no better, either, as Costco's terms for its wholesale suppliers aren't anywhere close to Apple's, even though the agreement is structured more or less similarly -- but sure, let's entertain it: Costco's terms for its suppliers aren't public, but at least the ones that are on public record (via the SEC: https…

The root of your confusion is you think when you've installed and run the app you are no longer in "Costco", but you never left.

You can buy any number of in game items on iOS and then go and use those same items in the Play Store version of the games, and vice versa.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#337

Post by g-b-r » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:19 PM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #318

g-b-r wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for newspapers

right, that seems to be the model for German newspapers online, haven't seen it other places.

It seems to have become common at least in several European countries

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#338

Post by skyyler » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:19 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #330

skyyler wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So we see a dissonance between what the media says (and many people believe) and what's really happening. This thing right here terrifies me. The entertainment-information media oligopoly has a tight grasp on public conversations. It feels like a hydra that can't be defeated.

It can be defeated by talking to people about things. If you are known to be an expert in topic X, and you are saying something different to what the media says about topic X (and which makes more sense), people (who know you and your reputation) are inclined to believe you over the media. This only has a local impact, but global is made of local.

I do this as much as I can. Between chatrooms and local meets, I spend a significant portion of my time attempting to politely dispel misinformation.

It's exhausting, but it's worth it.

I want to organise with other people that do this, but I'm not sure how to do that. It feels like our efforts would be multiplied if we started to publish or otherwise spread information.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#339

Post by fc417fc802 » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:20 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #261

onli wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. While DMA does not apply, GDPR does. But it gets ignored and weakened by decision against the letter and the spirit of the law - which does not surprise if you realize how much power those legacy publishers hold. Not so FB, not here at least. So it's not exactly the same regulation but pretty much the same situation. I'd also be pissed.

GDPR does not purport to outlaw targeted advertising. It just purports to require that the target consent. In pretty much every other area of law in most of the world (including Europe) consent can be bought--the party requesting consent gives the consenter something in exchange for consent, and will not give that thing unless consent is given. But under the rulings from some regulators that doesn't work for GDPR. Co…

That's not entirely fair. The concept of duress exists and is always at odds with consent in a transactional setting. The issue is where to draw the boundary between "you freely chose to do business" and "you were coerced into accepting unfavorable terms".

I'm inclined to think that "pay or be tracked" is usually the former. The issue was never that I shouldn't have to pay but rather that I wasn't given the choice in the first place.

Re: Apple and Meta fined millions for breaching EU law

#340

Post by MyPasswordSucks » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 4:21 PM UTC

aaronbaugher wrote: post #269

xnorswap wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What surprises me is how much people on this site underestimate facebook. Facebook literally is the internet for millions of people. Facebook marketplace is far larger than craigslist and ebay combined, even if you take both of those at their respective peaks. The open web might seem huge, but it's actually dwarfed in size by Facebook.

Yeah, I often see claims online that Facebook is dead, Facebook is just Boomers posting pictures of their grandkids, etc. Maybe it's a regional thing, because where I live, everyone's on Facebook. Most small businesses, organizations, and communities here use it as their primary (or only) online presence for promoting themselves and staying in contact with their customers/members. Marketplace has completely replaced…

Part of the disconnect is that these days, a lot of the Facebook use is concentrated in places you don't necessarily see from the outside.

Like, fifteen years ago, if you happened upon the Facebook page of a random person, you'd usually see a handful of vacation pictures, a meme or three, some updates from their latest Clash of Cookie Farm Kitchen Dash session, and whatnot.

These days, all that stuff - if it's even still being posted - is likely siloed away to Friends-only posts. That random person might still be there, might still be logging in every day, but you don't see the Messenger group chats and the Marketplace offers/haggles.

Likewise for small businesses - a lot of the "look at this thing we're selling now, come check it out" posts now go to Instagram. They might still be auto-logging in, still responding to PMs on Facebook, still clicking a few news posts here and there, but that's just not visible on the outside, and creates the perception of Facebook the Ghost Town.